9mm ICEBERG and related

I thought I open a new thread to show some more images.
Here the 9mm variants:

127-171112182713 127-171112183858 127-171112192530 127-171112194022 127-171112194426 127-171112205901 4396825 4396831
382423

Source: internet and “patronen.su”.

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Boxes:

4

Source: internet and “patronen.su”.

Here the GMS-710 “firing device” disguised as an SMG. This one used electric primed cartridges which were also used by small key-chain devices.



Here a 9x26 made for the rubber ball GMS-700 SMG.
The case is a cut down 5.45x39 and the gun also exists as a real SMG in 9x18 as OTs-02 “Kiparis”.


Source: internet.

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Alex - Wow!!! I think I have about three specimens of all those 9mm-based less-than-lethal rounds. Incredible.

I was interested that the Iceberg headstamp seems to validate what Fede said. My “mistake” headstamp is “ICEBERG 9MM,” just as typed here. I see the ones you show, likely by LVE, are “ICEBERG 9mm” with lower-case “mm.”

Is the machine pistol in the last picture for these “less-than-Lethal” cartridges. Looks like the real thing (ball ammunition-firing) to me. You seem to indicate it is real in the caption above the cut-down 5.45-cased cartridges, but I wasn’t sure if it is the OTs-02 Kiparis you mentioned, or not.

Thanks for posting these. Great pictures and and excellent thread to me!

John M.

John, the GMS-700 is chambered in 9x26 “rubber ball”.
And the life variant firing real ammo in 9x18 of it is the OTs-02 “Kiparis”.

EOD - thanks! That’s a lot of gun just for shooting rubber pellets. I assume the live-firing variant looks the same.

Always nice to know something about the firearms that are used with the ammunition we all study. You cannot actually divorce one from the other.

John M.

“A lot of gun”:
Indeed! But here it might be the usual thing; people can ot own the real one and try to buy something as close as possible and then things often get out of relation. It is more the “I want” than the “it makes sense”. I bet here in Germany MP5 SMGs firing rubber balls would sell like crazy if only legally obtainable.
Also we need to keep in mind that the security situ is somewhat different in Russia. And some people want to deter from the very beginning (or bragg). Means where in the US somebody has a CCW permit in Russia he comes along with rubber balls (oh well, really ambiguous). And in Germany not even rubber balls are allowed (again ambiguous AND very true as for this) as the best you get here is non-guns producing “hot air” (i.e. blank firing toys you still need a so called “CCW permit light”).

But about cost and what people want:
For example here in Germany once the .50 Barret M82 sniper rifle was offered to collectors without any gun licence. Means the rifle in brand new condition got cut and drilled, welded shut etc. and then delivered to the customer for a price like 10,000+ Euro. A man’s will is his heaven!

After all it is in the eye of the beholder how much money he wants to spend on something.

And yes, to some extent guns always square into our subject. Both things are depending on each other and discussing one can not ignore the other. Many people are ignoring this part for some reason.