9mm Limit Z reloaded cases, continued


#1

After the find of some rather rare head stamps on reloaded 9x19 rounds sold by the Limit-Z company, one of which is now with Lew, I decided to keep track of these plastic bags with reloaded rounds.

A fellow shooter allowed me to go through a batch he bought recently. Most cartridges were reloaded S&B (Sellier & Bellot) ones, a few were CNC marked cases (Norinco / China, if I’m correct) and a single round had this head stamp. I’m not too familiar with the Norinco / Chinese head stamps, but I think it is a Chinese one?

head stamp is:
9x19 C J 95.


#2

That is the latest commercial Chinese 9 mm headstamp I have seen. The format is the same as in 1993, but since sales from China were stopped by our government in 1993 or there abouts, in this country (USA) we seldom see a date after 93.

John Moss


#3

Vlim - the CJ headstamp is definitely Chinese. I note that I really didn’t answer the question you asked directly.

How about posting a picture of the “rare” headstamp(s) you alluded to? Then we could all enjoy them and know they exist so we can keep an eye out for them.

John Moss


#4

John,

Thanks. Well ‘rare’ is a bit over the top, but it was nice to see a good number of S&B head stamp variations I had not seen before as well as this strange beast:

Other head stamps were:

Headstamps found in the package are:
S&B 08 9x19 NONTOX (some with remains of red paint in the lettering)
S&B 08 9x19
S&B 08 9x19
S&B 05 9x19
S&B 9P 08
S&B 9mm LUGER (with logo)
MFS VP 9x19-08/18
LZ 9mm Luger (remains of red paint in lettering)
PZ 9mmL 05 (with green paint residue around primer)
SME 9MM 7 - 05 (remains of green paint in lettering)
9mm LUGER SK


#5

John, I think the import ban regarding ammunition from China went into effect towards the end of 1994. The latest 7.62x39mm known to be imported was headstamped “71 95”. Presumably this was late 1994 productin using the new year’s date… Are there any other Chinese made calibers imported with a 1995 date?

AKMS


#6

AKMS - you could be right. I never made any note ot it at the time. All from memory. There was a big shipment of 7.62 x 39 mm on the water at the time the Clinton ban was enacted, if I recall correctly. I remember that there was some bitching about it in the industry because the Feds wanted to turn it back - not allow it to be unloaded in a US port even though the American buyer had ordered it and paid for it before the ban took place. I think for once our side won and they allowed its importation, since approved licenses already existed. That delivery may have actually taken place in 1995, and could explain the “95” date. I don’t know that for certain, but I do have a pretty clear memory of the controversy at the time. I just don’t recall the exact timing. I have two Chinese 9mm rounds with “L Y” headstamp from “94,” but I know that the HP-bullet round came from Europe for me, and the FMJ-bullet round may have as well, although it possibly could be from the US. I simply don’t recall.

John Moss


#7

What was the intended purpose of the ban on Chinese small arms and ammunition?


#8

The rounds with the C J 94 headstamp were sold here in the Netherlands as shooting ammo. I think I still have a half full box of them somewhere.

[EDIT] I can ask gyrojet to take some with him to the States if there is any interest in some cartridges.


#9

Falcon, obstensibly, the “China Ban” was punishment for them passing on some sort of US technology that was sold to them for civilian use only, to their military, and perhaps to other countries. Like anyone didn’t know they would put it to whatever use they wanted once they got it. Personally, it was just an excuse to outlaw good quality, inexpensive ammunition from the U.S. Market. All Chinese Arms and Ammunition, except rimfire and shotgun, were banned under Clinton. That administration also coerced the Russian Government into not selling the Makarov pistols in the U.S. anymore, making some sort of US aid the Russians needed contingent on that. That’s why they disappeared from the market here, not because of poor sales. Recent imports of some Russian military Makarovs were not from Russia, but rather from Germany, and were probably pistols supplied to the DDR. They could be imported because they were not in Russia for the required number of years that had to be in another country, and no one was going to screw around with a major US trading partner and ally like Germany. The worms in government only kill arms imports when they know they can get away with it easily, without starting a trade war.

John Moss


#10

You can fall foul of US technology laws very easily and not even know you have done it. It could be anything. You think missile guidance systems and the like but it could be telephone exchange equipment or something much more mundane.

Presumably if you give Limit Z a call they will tell you where they buy their fired cases from in bulk. Its probably something like police firing ranges in Eastern Europe. In which case they may get quite a number of cases that are not otherwise imported into the US through more conventional channels.

Should you be able to make contact with someone on the inside who knows a bit about it he could be a useful source.