9mm Luger ID


#1

I never thought I’d ask a question about 9mm Luger but, here I am asking three. I will go to church on Sunday and ask forgiveness but fully expect a bolt of lightening to smite me.

I did some searches and found a little bit but I’m still not certain. I need to catalog these, so here goes.

  1. R-P 9m/m LUGER. Plastic encased multiple bullets. No slits in the plastic. What is the proper catalog name for this? 9mm Squeeze Bore? 30 Cal Squeeze Bore?

  2. 9 45 MM. Maybe it’s 6 45? FMJ GM. Flat brass primer, crimped, black sealant. Clandestine or ??

  3. What are these worth? Are these tradable?

I have two of the squeeze-bore cartridges and was thinking about pulling a bullet to see what it looks like. Good or bad idea?

I can take photos but I don’t think it will show anything that you don’t already know, and it’s a PITA to set everything up.

Thanks

Ray


#2

Ray,

9mm, huh? I’m not sure what to say…Now that you have found the caliber of your dreams, keep me in mind before you sell for scrap copper value all your pre-NATO stuff.

I saw your #1 item in Pete deCoux’s #11 auction. Item #560 is listed as a pair of 9mm/cal. .30 Salvo Squeeze Bore and the estimated price for two was $50-80. Tearing apart one of them will only make the other one that much rarer and I’m quite sure the adventure will make you happy regardless…

No clue on #2.

Dave


#3

Ray, is this of any help?:


#4

Ray - your 9 MM 45 round is Canadian, probably made in the 1950s for the CIA. There is some argument over when they were made, but no scholarly argument over the fact that they were NOT made in the years of the headstamp dates. Millions of rounds of this ammo were sold in the United States as surplus. It is collectible like any cartridge, but of very modest value.

The other rounds are Colt Salvo Squeeze Bore. I have three different 9 mm boxes for this ammo, and one .45 box, and all have only the designation of caliber followed by “SSB.” (9mm SSB; .45 SSB). There are many variations in the calibers this concept was made in, but in the pistol rounds at least, they do not seem to have had separate designations. If they did, they were probably used only “in house” at Colt, since I don’t know anyone who has heard of any.
I cannot speak for the .50 MG rounds - out of my area of study.

The Colt rounds are certainly collectable. I don’t attempt the assignation of actual values - they are simply too subjective and in some cases even regional. The Colt rounds are usually moderately expensive though.

John Moss


#5

John

Thanks, as usual. I knew that you would know but wanted to ask on the Forum so everyone else would know too. ;)

EOD

Thanks for the bullet photo. Now I won’t have to disect one of mine. Or maybe I will. I can’t resist looking at the guts of any cartridge.

Dave E

I’ll have to check Pete’s Prices Realized to see what they went for. I’d be happy at $25 per each and even happier at $40. I won’t be making 9mm the Centerpiece of my collection anytime soon so they are available for trade. Right now I am trying to catalog some of those pistol cartridges that reside in that big cigar box labeled “MISC”. ;)

Thanks again to all.

Ray


#6

Although the SSBs are interesting rounds, they’re far from scarce. I think you’ll be lucky to get $15-20 for one.


#7

jonnyc

I’d still be happy, considering that they were given to me.

It’s interesting that Pete described them as 9mm/Cal .30 Salvo Squeeze Bore although there is certainly no relationship to Project SALVO, AFAIK. His customer paid $55 for the pair. But I don’t collect with money in mind (or so it says here). ;)

Ray


#8

Ray, I don’t know if the 9mm rounds had any relationship to “Project Salvo” or not, since I am not familiar with the entire program. They were made, however, within Colt’s “Salvo Squeeze Bore” program, and I don’t know if that included the .50 MG rounds or not. It did include .45 Auto. I always assumed it did include the 50s because of the similarity of design of the projectiles in both calibers (very different in shapes I know, but not in concept), but again, that is out of my field and I could be dead wrong. Colt designed a double-action semi-automatic pistol they wanted to sell to the government, called the Model 1971, as I recall. It came either with conventional 9 mm barrel, or the 9mm/.30 barrel. I couldn’t find any use by Colt of the full “9mm/.30” designation on anything to do with these rounds, but that is basically what they are. Further, Israel was interested in this project, and actually sent primed empty cases for loading by whoever was loading the rounds for Colt - in house or sub-contract. Again, I don’t have information as to who actually loaded these cartridges. They were for a tapered-bore UZI SMG.

The pistol, as we all know, was a failure, and was never seriously considered by the Government or manufactured for commercial sales. I assume that the UZI experiments went the way of the wind, also, as there is only one know lot and date for the Colt/IMI rounds.

John Moss


#9

John

I believe that Colt’s Salvo Squeeze Bore project started in the late 60s, after the Army’s Project SALVO had been completed. I think they simply glommed onto the Salvo moniker, and their efforts were strictly commercial in hopes of convincing the military of the concept. But, I could be completely wrong because there is no definite documentation of when Project SALVO was officially terminated.

It will take someone younger and more enthusiastic than me to do the research necessary to come up with the truth.

Ray


#10

Ray, Any 9mm that crossed your unappreciative hands would probably lose half it’s value!!!

Having said that, there are lots of different kinds of Colt 9mm SSB rounds. Most of the variations are shown on this page on my website http://gigconceptsinc.com/Colt-SSB.html.

Some versions were produced in the 1000s as indicated and some were less than 100. Likely you have the common ones, but the rare ones are worth considerably more.

Cheers,

Lew


#11

Wow!! Who would have suspected there were so many. I’ve never owned anything that is rare or even uncommon so you can bet my two are as common as a stick. But, I’ll study the article just to be sure.

I never realized there were that many calibers of Colt’s Squeeze Bore. I have the 9mm, 7.62, .50, and .45 but will have to keep an eye open for others.

Ray


#12

Ray, I’ve drooled over too many of your postings to believe your poor-mouthing above. Of course, over the past decade I have been drooling a lot more anyway—go figure.

You have some very good SSB loads. Congrats!

Cheers,

Lew


#13

I second Lew’s drooling. Ray, some of your U.S. Military rounds blow me out of the water, and I don’t even collect them. Great stuff. Keep posting information and pictures of all those “common” rounds most of us have never seen. By the way, I drool more now too, even though I am not a retired Air Force Officer. I guess it even happens to Army enlisted men, despite their obvious superiority. Duh…? (Le gran pissant strikes again, Lew).

John Moss


#14

For what ever it is worth, I got the name from original Colt literature [Report No. 850-2095 & dated Feb. 1972] about / describing the round. However as John notes the boxes just use 45 SSB or 9 SSB. So take’s yo pick, & do you feel lucky?

Yes no relationship to Project SALVO.

Yes the .50 SSB according to the above Colt literature is called “Cal. .50/.30 Salvo Squeeze Bore System” Not seen a box for these so…

And to further the FYI, the .45 is called: “Cal. .45/.38 Salvo Squeeze Bore System” and the 7.62 are called: “7.62 mm/Cal .220 Salvo Squeeze Bore System” in this publication. It also gives technical info, bullet weights, bullet numbers, velocitys, chamber pressures & stuff like that, plus the barrel adaptor info. for each caliber, and projectile dispersion.

Also lists the US patent #34500050

Ray, check the ojive / meplat & plastic sabot variations on your ‘pair’ to be sure they are the same before you pull one apart. There are a large number of variations in the bullets and the ‘sabot’.

FYI only about three 9mm headstamps [Colt, R-P, & Israeli] I’m aware of, but as Lew states plenty of variations.