9mm Mauser Export box


#1

Just showing a recent NVBMB swap meet find.

A box you don’t see every day, 16 rounds of the 9mm Mauser Pistolenpatrone, aka the 9mm Mauser Export.

Sadly the box was opened and some rounds shuffled about. Headstamps are all P635, most lot nr 14, but some lot nr 12. If I look at the box and the lid, it seems that these rounds were originally placed on 2 8-round stripper clips. Can anyone verify that?


#2

Yes, I can confirm that.

Rgds,
Dutch


#3

Very nice box. Now for the information it gives us which is not instantly evident.

P635 is Hirtenberger ( in Former Austria)

The entire label is in typical German Wehrmacht-style labelling)

Ergo, this ammo was destined for the Official German Military machine.

Question, where were 9mmM SMGs being used in the Wehrmacht?

Solution (?) Units raised in Austria and using quantities of Steyr M34 SMGs ( originally Export Models chambered in 9mmM?) Military Police units ( Feld-Polizei)? Photos exist of Various German units armed with MP34(o), Kaliber unbekannt. (unknown)
Maybe a Military aid or delivery to Hungary…they had MPs in 9mmM ( both Steyrs and others), but that may be spurious, even though Hungary was making the G98/40 rifle for Germany in 1940-41, so it could be a “counter-trade”

The Blue label ( seems to be a “Fur MG” type indication") and the 16 round pack would indicate SMG loading ( 2 packs per 32 round Magazine…very meticulous these Germans.)
No Pistol used a 8 or 16 round loading ( Mauser Brooms (M1908) had a ten round mag).

Any other suggestions?

regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics
Brisbane, Australia


#4

Is the clip interchangeable with those used also for the 7,62 mm Tokarev?Look like almost identical


#5

The clip is basically the Steyr Model 1911/1912 Pistol pattern. It was used with some SMG magazine-loading devices that were designed after the clip design already existed.

The Communist-era Czech clips for the 7.62 x 25m/m Tokarev are the basic design, but the projections at each end of the clip are shorter than those on the Steyr-Hahn stripper clips, and were designed for the built-in magazine loader on the side of the contemporary Czech SMGs in both 7.62 x 25 and 9 x 19mm calibers.


#6

DocAV


#7

I am sorry that I don’t know the origin of many of the German unit numbers.
If the 5th or 7th Panzer wer SS units, then it is really possible this was used by them. If Army units, I would call it highly unlikely. It was the Waffen SS that got most of the captured, substatitute standard, and non-regulation caliber weapons (among those troops serving on the front lines - am not talking about rear-echelon units or things the the Volkssturm). The SS and Police Regiments had weapons like the MP18, the Erma SMG, Steyrs, the magnificent Czech ZB 26 (Bren-type) LMG, Schnellfeuer Mauser Pistols and the like. These weapons were seldom seen in Army hands after the War really got under way. Since the 9mm Mauser cartridge had been standard in many Austrian Services, the Hungarian military, and the Greek Mechanized Police Force (which was disbanded and did not exist again after the German occupation of Greece), it is not surprising that it saw sufficient use in the Axis forces that Hungary made ammo of this caliber throughout the war, and DWM and RWS both made military-headstamped ammuniton (P28, P405, and dnh) at various times druing the war. This is in addition to P635 from Gustloff-Werke. It was also made commercial by DWM, Geco and RWS, right up to WWII, and perhaps into the war years for Police contracts.A\

Aside from the few commercial C96 Mauser pistols made for it, and the Steyr-Solothurn MP34(


#8

John –

So far as I can tell neither the 5th or 7th Panzer Armies were SS units (unlike, for example, the 6th SS Panzer Army which fought later in the Ardennes). However, as a result of the generally confused situation in Normandy at the time of the Allied advance, I suppose it’s quite possible that elements of a Waffen SS Unit found themselves encircled in the company of the 5th and 7th in the Falaise Pocket.


#9

This charger is 3.2mm longer than the Czech SMG ones. It was originally used for the Steyr Model 12 pistol (Steyr Hahn) in 9x23mm. Some of these pistols were converted to 9x19mm Parabellum during WW2 by the Germans, using the same charger. The pistol had a fixed eight round magazine which could only be charger loaded through the top of the action.

The MP34 SMG was manufactured in 9x25mm Mauser for the Austrian army and 9x23mm Steyr for the Austrian police. All of these weapons were put into service by Germany. So, the same charger may be found with all three of the above 9mm cartridges.

Reference: Small Arms of the World by WHB Smith.

gravelbelly


#10

Here is my box, it’s unopened, together with an older one:


#11

Do you know what the headstamp is on what’s in the Austrian box and if the cartridges are on clips, are these marked?

Many thanks, Peter


#12

If you mean that brown box in my picture, sad to say, it’s a mix’ed lot. 13 of the rounds have the following headstamp: 19 IX 38 and the eagle, while the last 3 rounds have I instead of IX, and the same mark as on the lower left corner of the box. So I guess those are the right rounds from this box.

Here is a picture of the first headstamp:

I can take picture of the other if wanted.

They are in clips.

Regards Thor


#13

psg-1

Most interesting! If the rounds are original, it looks as if the box was filled just after the 1938 Anschluss, when control of Hirtenberger Patronenfabrik was wrested from the Mandl family and handed over to Gustloff Werke AG. The box and the older of the two kinds of headstamp bearing the 2-headed Corporate State Eagle are relics of Hirtenberger’s role as Staatsfabrik (official Austrian State Factory for ammunition production), which it assumed in 1933. The more recent “Nazi Eagle” mark on the headstamps was Gustloff’s interim measure before adopting the official German system, first as “P635” and later “am”.

What was the mark on the clips?


#14

Well, if the clips are original, the marking is a H inside a circle. Here is a picture of the oldest round, the clip and the box:

And the headstamp:

Thanks for the information. I have a small collection, but I really don’t know so much about the ammunition, except for the caliber. I’ve been reading here for a long time, and really learned a lot.


#15

psg-1


#16

Well, I’m in doubt about this box, because it was already opened when I got it, and the date on the box say 1936, but the headstamp on both lot’s are 1938. But I’ll still keep it together in this box.


#17

psg-1

Yes, if the box was opened when you got it, this must cast some doubt on it being an original combination. But it is quite possible that Hirtenberger had a batch of boxes made in 1936 and some were still unused two years later. Keep them together anyway; neither the box, nor cartridges with those headstamps, nor those “H” marked clips are seen very often nowadays. A good find.