9mm Mauser


#1

Hello All,
I am familiar with the 9mm Mauser Export cartridge, but in my database I have a series of 9mm Mauser Experimentals (#1 through #4).
I am looking for photos/scans of the 9mm Mauser Experimental cartridges.
If you have them could you please post them.
All my books are packed up so I can’t get into them right now.

Do these cartridges exist outside of drawings?
The only significant differences I see are case length.

Any information would be appreciated.

Brian


#2

I have the DWM 487 (25mm); 487C (19mm) and the 487D (25mm). I know the DWM 487A exists on a cartridge, but I do not have it. I have never seen DWM 487B, nor do I know anyone who has. You will note that in Erlemeier-Brandt Numbers 132 and 133 (DWM 487A and 487B, the pictures of the cartridge shown are the same picture, even though they should not be the same case length as the pictures are. Also, while I can’t say positively that the 487D was not developed early, the style of the headstamp letters and the red primer seal dates that cartridge from the late 1930s, not from 1913 as Erlmeier and Brandt says. Again, I am talking about the real cartridge, not a drawing or DWM Case-Number Register listing. It may have been developed that early, but wasn’t actually made, at least with K DWM K 487D headstamp until 25 years later than the E&B date.

I can do a scan of the three cartridges I have, but it won’t show you anything as the 487 and 487D look alike - simply 9 x 25mm, and the 487C looks just like a 9mm Para, except for the neck crimps which might not show up well on my scan. Someone else will have to supply the 9 x 21mm version, the 487A and as I said, I am not certain at all the 487B exists in an identifiable form; that is, with DWM 487B headstamp.


#3

Thank you John for the information.
I would appreciate the scans especially the headstamps when you have time.
I have never seen the DWM 487C or D (and probably will never see the 487B)
You have put the 9mm Mauser experimental cases types in perspective for me.
I always felt that they were developments from the 1930’s but I didn’t have your expertise.
Thanks for sharing!

Brian


#4

Brian,

Please don’t misread what I said. I only said that I felt that the DWM 487D was loaded in the late 1930s based on the headstamp letters and primer seal color. I do not know when it was developed. Perhaps then, perhaps much earlier.

The DWM 487A I have not really seen except briefly, shown one by the lucky, but now impoverished, recipient at a big cartridge show. I recall that it has Serifed letters, making it much, much earlier than my 487D round.

I know nothing of the 487B except what I have read, because I don’t know a single person who has ever seen a specimen of this round. In my mind, it is likely it was never made. Not everything in the DWM case register was necessarily manufactured.

The 487C, the 9 x 19mm case type, was made specifically for the Model 1912/14 Mauser Pistol. I had one of these pistols years ago with a two-digit serial number. am too tired from setting up a cowboy shoot today to go downstairs and look up the number in my files. However, it has appeared in books and is one with the word Oberndorf on the side of the pistol spelled wrong - as “Obendorf.” These guns came out right before WWI, I believe, so that cartridge too, which has a serifed-letter headstamp, is much earlier than the actual production date of all the 487D cartridges I have seen (only three, ever, but the other two were just like mine).

I will try to do a scan of the headstamps today. I am tired, have house guests, my son and his family will join us and our guests briefly and then I have to drive him to San Francisco Airport. Tomorrow I have the match I set up today. Next week I will be in Southern California all week to see friends and to attend the CCCA Annual Show at La Palma. Then, when I get back, I have a four day cowboy shoot out in the central valley of California, and will not be home. So, you can see I am not making up my lack of time this month. I will do my best to accomodate you though.


#5

Thank you again John,
No hurry with the scans.
I’ve been trying to “learn” cartridges for over thirty years, so a few weeks here or there is no problem. George Hoyem got me started years ago and now I am trying to be a little more active and learned.

Family, friends and guests first!

All the best,
Brian