9mm Mod.910 (Glisenti) " Per Mitragiatrici"

A few Months back, I saw on a Fiocchi Web Page, a large Photo of the 9mm Glisenti Production Room, with Ammo Chests used to transfer Work in progress from one machine to another ( cases).
The Printing on these recycled Military Crates was
" Cartuccie 9mm, Mod.910,
PER MITRAGLIATRICI "
Scene photographed 1918.

Found in 2019 Catalogue and Web Page.

Obviously for the Mitragliatrice Mod.915 ( Villar Perosa).

Now for a cartridge to be specified
" for MG" indicates a variation from the Normal Mod.910 “per Pistola Automatica” (Glisenti and Brixia auto pistols.)

Several collectors have found 9mm Gl rounds with an over- powder wad, whilst others have no wad. I Don’t know about POWDER loads either.
Could it be that in 1915, Revelli developed his gun based on normal 9mm Glisenti, and that in 1916-17?, the EI wanted more
“Oomph” for both Air and Ground Use?( air use especially, although by 1917, the aviation was using Lewises in .303, and stripped down
CAPTURED Austrian MG07/12 Schwarzelose guns, and Vickers
( .303 and M906 in 6,5mm).

So has anybody got any info on V-P Mod.915 ammo for both Air and Ground use? And the reason for the “Per Mitragliatrice” labelling…

Since the Magazines for the V-P were 25 rounds, and they were in pairs, with 20 ? Mags per Gun chest, was the ammo packed in 50 round packets, unlike the Pistol ammo in ? 7 0r ? 8 round packets???
The Ammo chests were similar, ( or actually the same-- I have a 6,5 chest) and also to the Rifle ammo chests, for ease of transport, storage, and manufacture.

Doc AV.

Hi Doc
this is the cartridge with the wad, I can’t remember where I found this image.


there’s no document that specifies the reason for the use of this wad, only a manual of 1941 speaks of machine gun cartridges where the powder is * è assestata sul bossolo da un disco di feltro *
(settled on the shell casing by a felt disc)

during the Great War were used indiscriminately the two types, were found Villar Perosa magazines with cartridges without wad and boxes marked for pistol with wad, all this has created no little confusion
the most probable hypothesis is that the wad was used to keep the little powder crushed at the bottom of the case and that this was useful in the burst shooting.
the two types of cartridge had the same charge so they were perfectly interchangeable.
Are known boxes of 7, 25 and 28 cartridges, the latter of American production.
I hope my English is understandable
Carlo Zambon

Carlo, grazie per la risposta.
Sono Piemontese, e lei? Con un nome come Zambon, Veneto o Friulan?
Suo inglese e’ ottimo.
“Borer” e’ Tarlo di legno; se intendeva Borra da cartuccia ( ad anima liscia) l’inglese e’ “wad”.
Polvere: puo indicare Dust, ( pulviscolo, ) Powder, ( polverine come farina, fard cosmetico, etc) o piu’ technicamente, Polvere da sparo; correttamente " gunpowder"
o nitrocellulosa.( a distinguere da
PN polvere nera.).

7 cartuccie e 28 (4×7) Significano pacchetti per pistola; 25 per V-P e piu tardi, OVP 18 e MAB 18 e 18/30.
Piacere della conoscenza,
Doc AV
Ballisticus de Quadraglium, Cuneensis in Padania pedemontanus… natio et domicilium in Terra Australis.

A description of the over-powder wads, and their likely use, is included in the Article “The 9m/m Glisenti Model 1910 Cartridge,” by John Moss, Woodin Laboratory, with Photographic Assistance from Lew Curtis, pages 10 - 24. The information about the wad is on page 12.

Basically, it was used in cartridges from 1915 and on for ammunition intended specifically for the Villar Perosa Modello 1915, and later in the Bertetta Model 1918 Submachine Gun.

It appears that only one company making the 9 mm M910 cartridge identified the cartridges intended for the “pistola mitragliatrice modello 15” and that was Leon Beaux & C., at Milano. Beaux loadings of the M910 cartridge examined internally had no over-powder wads unless the headstamp had two curved lined lines on the headstamp, one on each side between the makers initials and the date. While drawing the conclusion, from the dates of the cartridges and the lack of wads in cartridges without the lines, in truth, their meaning is “educated conjecture” as no official documents explaining this were found in the study of the M910 cartridge.

The American Manufacturers, Maxim, U.S. Cartridge Company (produced for Maxim and with their headstamp) and Western Cartridge Company, did not use these wads.

John Moss

Giovanni Defrancisci from his web page on the 9x19 mm GLISENTI presents the following:

http://www.munizioni.eu/italiane2/13-italiane/38-9-glisenti.html

Note: Google translation from Italian to English

Brian