9mm Nagant (or 9.4mm Nagant?)

The Belgian military issued a 9mm Nagant revolver called the model 1878 and then an improved one called the model 1878-86. The cartridge for the Belgian revolver is often called 9.4 mm, which reminds me of the Dutch 9.4 service revolver but the two cartridges are not interchangeable. The Dutch revolver has a larger bore diameter. The Belgian Nagant bore size is smaller. Dutch 9.4 military cartridges will not chamber in the Belgian M.1878-86.

Does anyone have case and bullet data for the Belgian service revolver cartridge? Size, weight and length of the bullet would be interesting. There is rather limited information about this round on-line.

Thanks,
Greg

Greg,

Here is some basic information from Handbuch der Pistolen und Revolver Patronen, Vol. 1, Erlmeier & Brandt, 1967, page 136:

Technical Data-

Bullet dia. 9.25 – 9.30mm (.364 - .374”). Round nose lead bullet with paper patch.

Case diameters, Neck: 9.90 – 10.20mm (.389 - .401”), Head: 10.75 – 10.90mm (.423 - .429”), Rim: 12.00 – 12.35mm (.472 - .486”)

Berdan primer

Cartridge length 33.30 – 34.50mm (1.311 – 1.358”)

Cartridge weight 11.95 – 12.30gm (184.41 - 189.81 grains)

Production ceased around 1914.

Another source indicates production occurred in Belgium and Germany.

Hope this helps.

Brian

Thank you Brian. Is the bullet weight given in any source?

According to the Erlmeier & Brandt book the bullet weight is 11.95-12.3 g. If you want a detailed factory drawing of the 9 mm Nagant cartridge, I suggest the ECRA CALIBER DATA VIEWER. Here you can see drawing no.10154, dated January 1919 from S.F.M. in France. The paper patched bullet here is 12-12.3 g, length 20.0 mm, diameter 9.05-9.15 mm without patch and 9.35-9.45 mm with paper patch. There is also another drawing from S.F.M., 10080 dated Dec.1900, which shows a slightly different case, but fewer details.

Many thanks Vidar. I will try to check out the ECRA data. Maybe I’ll be fortunate enough to locate an example of this round some day.

PS: pics of this cartridge.

Thank you for images of an example. I have still not located any originals.

45 Auto
This cartridge is also known as the Galland and the Erlmeier Vol 1 page 174 that I have list that cartridge as such
I nearly went crazy I have the thing but had it listed under both Nagant and Galland however the one I have is
listed as Galland in Herschel C Logens book with the same stamp as given in the book. C R B 99 and 2 stars.
here are the names under wich that cartridge can run
9mm Belgische Nagant Pistole

9mm Nagant Pistole

9mm pistolet& Revolver 99

9.6=22 Bachmann
9mm Belgischer Nagant Offiziers Revolver M 1878
9mm GALAND REVOLVER
9mm Nagant Belgien

Sherryl, Many thanks for the data. I would never have thought to look for this round under the name “Galland” It would appear that the Nagant M1878 was chambered for a preexisting cartridge.

Vidar… I know this is an old post, but how do you access the information? I am not able to see the drawing number you referenced.

Brass can be made from 30-30

4mm%20Nagant%20Revolver 4mm%20Nagant%20Revolver%202

Hello Ron,

There are actually two old S.F.M. drawings in the Ecra Caliber Data Viewer (ECDV), no.10080 and 10154. In order to access these drawings you probably need to buy a license for the ECDV, which contains huge amounts of information, pictures and drawings of cartridges.

I can print these drawings, scan them and send to you, but I don’t know if I’m allowed to do this. The reasoning being that I want to stay loyal to the user agreement. I have sent sent a message to the data manager, and we’ll see what happens.

Sincerely,

Vidar

Hello Vidar!

Thank you for your reply. I looked at the cost of joining and at over 300 euros for a one time use, it is not cost effective. All I really need are the dimensions i.e. rim Dia., dia of casee just above the rim; dia of cae at mouth, case length and rim thickness. If they won’t let you do it, they won’t let you. I appreciate the offer though. Wouldn’t have to go through this if loaded ammunition was available….

Sincerely,

Ron

Hello Ron,
I guess there is no harm in supplying these basic dimensions. These are from the SFM 1900 no.10,080 drawing.Rim diameter 12.5mm, rim thickness 1.1-1.2mm, base diameter 10.7-10.8mm, external case mouth diameter 9.7-9.8mm and case length 22.0mm.
Sincerely, Vidar

There is an old discussion about loading this round on the cast boolits forum:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?7962-9-4-rimmed-Belgian-Nagant-help-needed

Hello Ron,
For IAA members the cost of the ECDV is 130€. I’m collecting cartridges for more than 25 years now, And I had always believed that the ECDV will be useless as I had already a few cartridge’s book and you can find a lot of informations on internet and specially on this forum. Nevertheless two years ago I decided to acquire the ECDV. It’s a really well made software and I use it as often as I’m questionning about a cartridge. In the case of this topic, as I Believe that one drawing is better than one thousand words, I opened it and made screenshots of my own cartridges which were already integrated in the database. There’s also a tool which show the drawings of the cartridges on the same page, very usefull to make comparisons. Below they are:





9%20dutch%20(3)
9%20dutch%20(4)
9%20nagant%20vs%209%2C4%20dutch

Thank you!

Thank you very much for the attachments. This really helps me out a lot!

Regards,

Ron