9mm PA in US service

I saw 9mm PA being mentioned to be new in the US inventory for dog training.
Has anybody seen the boxes for these already and can tell who is the manufacturer?

From the “USMC Munitions Readiness” presentation at NDIA 2016:
9mmPA

9mm PAK ( the K = Knall, or Noise Blank.)
Has a .378" body, specifically made for a diecast blank firing pistol…case is 23mm long, and plastic powder case comes out of body, ruptures and allows gas out.
No plastic leaves gun.
One cannot use Military (maneuvre patrone) blanks in this die-cast gun. Won’t chamber. And even if one fiddled with chamber, gun would blow up.

Basically a Toy Gun cartridge. Guns made in Italy, Turkey, Germany, and ammo made in Turkey Italy, Czech republic, Germany etc.

Doc AV

Doc, I think the cartridge is well known. What about boxes and manufacturers for US service?

Not all of the “less-than-lethal” pistols chambered for the P.A.K. cartridge are die-cast “toys.”
For example, the Makarov has been made for this and other Russian “less-than-lethal” cartridges, and the gun itself is basically the same as a 9 x 18 mm Makarov pistol. Even the Izhevsk-made air pistols are all steel (except the plastic grips, of course) and in some cases, appear to have been made from repurposed original parts, including slide and frame. I would not class any of the blank and gas pistols as toys, even though it is correct that many of them would not stand up to conversion to ball ammunition types.

I, too, would love to see samples of packaging for the U.S. Military version. I assume it is confirmed that the cartridge in question, and therefore the dog-training pistols, are caliber 9 mm P.A. and not simply noise-blank versions of the standard 9 x 19 Parabellum cartridge?

John Moss

The image in that document is wrong, since this cartridge is the Canadian 9 mm Securi Blank for M9 pistols with upper kit. The only source has always been SNC and later General Dynamics (Simunition Operations).

Later edition with corrected image. New DODIC number AC07 has nothing to do with the image change.

Fede, interesting!
What is the AXX3 then?

It’s the former DODIC number assigned to this round.

Fede, thanks!
I am surprised how hard insiders can screw up.

Alex,

People are assigned the task of preparing listings, manuals, catalogs but they have NO technical understanding/knowledge/training on/about/for the items/material they have been assigned. So when they don’t know what an item is supposed to look like, instead of consulting a knowledgeable person, they do a web search and find a photo with a description that sounds good to them and use the “found” photo in their listing/catalog project.

The problem is solved as far as they are concerned, whether a description or photo is right or wrong is immaterial to them.

Brian

1 Like

Brian, you are right!
I was demanding too much.