9mm Para DWM HP


#1

Anyone familiar with this loading?
Is it a reload? Or was it military?

These are the dates I have, but have seen many more, early ones, until 1913 (I think so).





#2

I hope that someone can provide a definitive answer to Fernando’s question. I have the same hollow-point in a round dated “7 09.” That is a fairly early headstamp for this style of marking, as my earliest headstamp with truncated FMJ bullet is only two months earlier, “DWM K 05. 09.” Like Fernando, I have seen these bullets in many different dates, but all pre-WWI (nothing 1914 or later), but don’t have them in my own collection as I don’t save dates. I also have the same bullet loaded in cases headstamps “K DWM K 480C.” the standard DWM commercial headstamp for 9mm Parabellum.

I have wondered if they might not be police loadings from the times, but I am not sure when the German police first got issue, or purchased, the P-08 pistol. The number of dates they are found in to me rules out any kind of experimental loading. Also, the bullet is certainly not experimental - a standard bullet offered commercially in this caliber.

What I have NOT seen is a box label for these hollow-point rounds with military type headstamp.

Maybe one of the German collectors, or Lew Curtis, could give us some help here.


#3

BTT

I have checked and all I have seen are also dated from 1909 to 1913…


#4

I have no written documnetation, but this is clearly a military headstamp, yet in these dates, a HP bullet should not be used in a War.

I am told these rounds were made for use by the German Colonial troops in Africa since nobody in Europe (and lots of other places)in the 1900s & 1910s consider it wrong to shoot Africans with HP bullets. This is a very logical explaination, but no supporting documentation.

Has anyone seen an original box for these rounds? I have not. In my collection I have 8 different dates. It appears that DWM produced one or two lots a year from 1909 through 1913. These dates are consistant with the theory on usage by Colonial troops.

Any new info on these rounds would be appreciated.


#5

Lew, thanks for replying!
I am going to check and post all the months and years I can get of this loading by friday.
Have you ever pulled a bullet to see if it is DWM coded?


#6

[quote=“Lew”]

I am told these rounds were made for use by the German Colonial troops in Africa since nobody in Europe (and lots of other places)in the 1900s & 1910s consider it wrong to shoot Africans with HP bullets.

Any new info on these rounds would be appreciated.[/quote]

The Africans just had no combattant status and as far as I know the same happens today in Iraq and Afghanistan - once an Army has decided this they can use what ever they want.
The German Bundeswehr is using today for example also the “Action 5”. As they state it is only for use by “special forces” (and MP as I would guess).

I’m definately not too experienced in 9x19 but all I heard so far was that these HP were just the first projectile of the 9x19 when it was developed. Further the projectile had no real expanding capability (due to cavity size and projectile shape). So the Germans did nont consider it to be an “expanding type” but were ciriticized for using “illegal” ammo and cancelled the production of these. (needs to be confirmed)


#7

That is very interesting and complements to what Lew wrote, Alex.
A document would be nice…
Are these rounds common as compared with the regular truncated ones?


#8

[quote=“Fernando”]That is very interesting and complements to what Lew wrote, Alex.
A document would be nice…
Are these rounds common as compared with the regular truncated ones?[/quote]

The HP are scarce since they are early. Truncated ones are pretty normal. Lew and the other 9x19 specialists may tell better.