9mm Para question in a movie "Into the White" 2012


#1

In a WWII based-on-a-true-story English-German confrontation “Into the White” imdb.com/title/tt1876277


#2

Vlad - it is not impossible that German military personnel might have some ammunition with truncated bullets (old stock ammo) in 1940, but I consider it unlikely.

I do not understand the question about “Norwegians shooting Germans.” There was active resistence, including violent action, against the German occupation of Norway all during the war.


#3

Thanks, John,
I clarified that Norwegians-shooting-Germans question by reading more, Norway’s regular army resisted until June 1940. My shortcoming. Unnskyld meg (I don’t know a word of Norwegian, but may recommend a recent movie “Kon-Tiki”)


#4

skavlad
"Unnskyld meg" is splendid Norwegian for “Sorry”, so you know at least two words of Norwegian now :-)
morten


#5

Nothing is impossible (in theory the Luftwaffe guy could have privately bought British 9mm which had truncated cone bullets).

But talking about Luftwaffe, it is totally out of the question that Luftwaffe personnel im combat 1940 could have been issued 9 mm rounds from 1916 or so vintage. Luftwaffe was proud of being the most modern outfit with the most modern equipment. They organized their own production line of P08 pistols at Krieghoff. Truncated cone bullets in 1940 are simply nonsense in my view.

Apart from that, a typical Luftwaffe pilot would have carried at 7.65 mm pistol, not a bulky “Zimmerflak” (living room Flak).


#6

JPeelen - I agree with you 100% I am always loathe to say that anything is “impossible,” especially in light of the fact that many German officers purchased their on sidearms and even sometimes there ammunition.

I inherited, a year or so ago, a Franz Stock pistol in almost new condition, loaded with a mini-cartridge collection of commercial, WWII vintage German 7.65 mm cartridges (yes - it was loaded when given to me, although the chamber was empty). It is with a “Krieghoff” style tan holster made for an FN Browning M1922 pistol. I feel the gun was a personal possession as it has not one single military mark, only commercial proofs. The holster, a type widely used by the Luftwaffe, probably was all that the officer who had the pistol originally could find to fit it, as both the stock and the 1922 FN are fairly long for .32 pistols, and both have a forward slide section of tubular shape. It also came with a dress dagger of the Standard Luftwaffe pattern, taken by the father of a next-door neighbor who passed away and left me these items. The holster and dagger assured me that the weapon was captured from a Luftwaffe officer. Mike, my neighbor, said his dad had captured them in the vicinity of Peenamunde (sorry if I spelled that wrong) and I believe their was a fairly large LW presence in that area.

Ammo had Geco, RWS and DWM headstamps, no two alike.


#7

The Luftwaffe mindset was obviously different to the Regia Aeronautica. An Italian bomber shot down over the UK during the Battle of Britain was found to be carrying rifles, bayonets and steel helmets for all six crew members.

However, some German bomber crews must have carried MP40s, as there was an incident where two downed bomber crews engaged British soldiers with an SMG and a pistol. This was the only case of combat on mainland British soil between British and Germans.


#8

John, you may be pleased to hear that the Stock pistol had a very good reputation for being a precise shooting, reliable pistol. German shooter Gerhard Bock (later captain of the German 1936 Olympic shooting team) used it in competition, for example.


#9

Peelen - I have not fired the pistol yet, although I have a little fresh ammunition for it and have had it for a year. While I don’t like the grip of the handgun, it is a very nicely made pistol, and with its non-moving barrel, I would have assumed it was an accurate pistol. Nice to have that confirmed. Thank you. While I had all the cartridges from it in my collection, I have kept the ones that were there in an envelope with the pistol. I was quite surprised that they gave me the pistol and dagger, as Mike had two brothers. It was a military family, with Mike and one of his brothers, and his father, being graduates of the United States Military Academy at West Point. Mike served in VN as a Captain and then Major, and was very decorated. I knew he had served, but was surprised by his decorations, displayed at his memorial service, because he was a very mild-mannered, quite man. His brothers, though, were quite comfortable with me getting the pistol and dagger. Very nice of them. They felt I would enjoy having it more than would they.


#10

John,
Are you talking about this Franz Stock? The holster came with it and may or may not be original.


#11

Vlad - hard to say for me if that is the original holster or not. These seem to have been primarily commercial pistols - that is, I don’t recall seeing one with military property marks on it. That would mean a military officer who bought one would simply acquire a holster that fits the pistol decently. My holster is tan, and has two straps over the top of the lid that the separate belt loop slides on. When the fastening strap is opened, the weight of the pistol causes the holster to drop down somewhat, to a lower position on the body, with the belt loop sliding on those straps. It makes it easier to draw the pistol. It was a style popular with the air force in Germany. Mine is unmarked, except for the pistol is is actually for, but many have the Krieghoff Trademark on the back, and collectors often refer to it as the Krieghoff pattern holster.

I didn’t picture my gun or my holster because I know this is a cartridge forum, but sometimes in these discussions it is hard to separate one subject from the other. Your pistol looks pretty much like mine.