9mm swiss steel case?

hello
i see this site and apparently they talk about swiss steel cased 9x19 PP41

doe these rounds exist ,i never see these

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Ammogun,

Is this what you are talking about?:

https://www.swisswaffen.com/pistolenpatrone-41-9mm-pist-pat-41/pp41/w0mrpnnoknua


swisswaffen.com-n-ae314zokqzvf

Brian

Brian - the picture you posted appears to be a standard brass-case round, with both loading and case material from Thun.

Ammogun - Never say never, but I, personally, have never seen a Swiss 9 mm P round with a steel case, or any of the “steel case headstamps” shown on that site. For fun, I opened another caliber of ammunition, and found the exact same listing of headstamp lettering for brass, aluminum and steel-case ammo. I think it is a general list that he just includes with every caliber of ammunition on his site. I did not find any of those steel case headstamps pictured in his 14 pages of pictures of 9 mm rounds and boxes.

Not a positive answer for sure; just an observation.

John Moss

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John
the mentioned site is a total mixup between 7,65 Parabellum (he shows several boxes of 7,65 as Mod.41 9mm), and 9mm and data from 7,5…also the given steel data is out from a swiss book (Rheinhardt and the small book about swiss headstamps from am Rhyn) and belongs only to 7,5x55 swiss steel cases…not 9mm!!
The 9mm shown by Brian is a copperwashed brass case (a proof round)…
and, as in the side itself, it says, that they do not take responsibility to be accurate, only accumulating existing data…

which means, pics are nice, info is for the trashbox…

Peter

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Peter, I agree with you entirely. I have gone through some incredible Swiss collections from Werner Schaltenbrand in the 1970s through Dimi Goulas in 2017, and talked to many Swiss about their production 0f 9x19mm, There has never been a hint of a steel case Swiss made 9x19.

Cheers,
Lew

I wonder why people are publishing such missleading info in the web when they obviously know nothing on the subject and then only confuse others (at best and make them dumb at worst)???
When they know nothing on the subject and likely nothing on the language a doc is in then they should shut up!

It is only partially misleading as to showing ID of Steel Case headstamps. As I mentioned, if you look at other calibers besides 9 mm, the same information for headstamp combinations by case material is there, identical to that in the 9 mm section.

I think he used those particular blocks as simply general information, although by including it with cartridges that were not ever produced in steel cases, he IS confusing the issue somewhat.

I only found two 7.65 Para boxes mistakenly put with the 9 mm caliber, and no pictures of 7.65 Para cartridges. Not to damning in my view, considering the number of boxes he was working with. Errors crop into all works here and there. There were several box labels I could not read, due to focus and size. There could be more 7.65s than I counted, as I didn’t want to take the time to enlarge or photoshop his pictures.

His cartridge picture descriptions are certainly not adequate, as there are many proof loads, just as an example, in the pictures that are not described as such. Maybe he thought the case finish, obviously copper-washed, was sufficient, but it is not, as the people most in need of a informational site are those that are not expert in Swiss ammunition.

All in all a mediocre site in my opinion, but not completely valueless.

John Moss

My impression is that at the beginning we all go through a period where we think to already know a lot. The gaps are often not obvious to oneself. Only later, after some embarrassing experiences, we begin to realize the limits of our knowledge and the dangers of incorrect information.

While the difficulties of paper publishing had been a natural filter, setting up a website or contributing to Wikipedia is only a few mouseclicks away. This contributes in my opinion to the amount of superficial information.

hello
thank for your responses