9mm x21 "Black Mamba"


#1

Sirs,

I hope it could be interesting for you…

…some pics I took this morning about 9mm x21 IMI cartridges manufactured by Fiocchi of Italy for self defence purposes…

L to R: a bullet from a disassembled round and three bullets recovered after the penetration of ballistic gel blocks…

L to R: the same as above…a look point first.

All the best
Andrea


#2

Can you show the bottom of the bullets, please?


#3

I’m hopeful that some of our European friends can bring any caliber of this ammunition to St Louis in April for trade. It is virtually unheard of in the U.S. as far as I know.


#4

Matt

I did not see this ammo on cartridge show’s !!

Harrie


#5

All the commonest pistol/ revolver cartridges are loaded with the Black Mambas bullet by Fiocchi.
This ammo use a light bullet launched at higher velocities and is studied for self defence.
Since in Italy HP or SP bullets are prohibited for self defence the only way to improve bullet performance is improving its velocity and its shape

This ammo also use the old primers that contain lead, not the commonly lead-free ones


#6

Besides the Top Defense Black Mamba, I wish that their Top Target ammo was available here in the U.S.

arcoefrecce.it/armeria/detta … ce=F100834


#7

Iv4o,

that’s a pic with a sectioned bullet:

All the best
Andrea


#8

Hoping that a European collector might be able to bring over any caliber (especially 9x19) of this to Top Defense “Black Mamba” SLICS this year, as I have yet to see any of it in the States yet.


#9

The bullets recovered from gelatin are interesting. If this was properly constituted and properly calibrated 10% Ballistic Gelatin, it is obvious that the steps followed in its design to “improve performance” were a total failure, as the bullets show not one single sign of deformation. Since they are light weight, it would be interesting to know the penetration obtained in Gelatin by them? Unless the bullets followed a highly erractic path through the Gelatin, it would appear that a normal 115 or 124 grain FMJ RN bullet would be a better self-defense choice.

Nifty for a collector though.

There are a number of Fiocchi 9 mm rounds with black bullets - the following are from my own collection, so there are probably more than this:

9 x 21 mm - Both brass case, nickel primer, no PA

Black RN bullet, total cartridge weight 188.7 Grains (12.22 Grams)
Black Truncated Flat Nose, total CW 190.3 Grains (12.33 Grams)

9 x 19 mm - Brass case, nickel primers, no PA

Black RN bullet, total cartridge weight 197.9 grains (12.11 Grams)
Black Truncated bullet with Dimple Nose, TCW 167.3 grains (10.84 Grams). THIS IS LIKELY THE BLACK MAMBA LOAD IN ITS 9 X 19 MM VERSION.
Black RN Lead bullet with brass base (gas check?), Total Bullet Weight - pulled from case - 123.3 Grains - brass case, brass primer with red primer seal for “Leadless ammo.”

There is also a Leadless round with Enclosed base, 100 grain GM Truncated bullet with a small circle of lead apparent at the tip. Brass case, brass primer with red PA.

For weight comparison, a Fiocchi standard FMJ RN 9 x 19 mm cartridge with 115 grain bullet, taken from its labeled box, weighed 181.4 grains (11.75 grams) Total Cartridge Weight.

Hope this is of some interest and assistance.


#10

If Andrea would provide me some samples I think I would be able to give them to some friends who will go to an ECRA meeting, along with the stuff I have put apart several time ago for my frineds John, Matt and Lew.

Sorry guys but it is still too “dangerous” to send stuff directly to you overseas. It would be perfectly legal, but postal office clerks not always know the law.


#11

[quote=“Pivi”]If Andrea would provide me some samples I think I would be able to give them to some friends who will go to an ECRA meeting, along with the stuff I have put apart several time ago for my frineds John, Matt and Lew.

Sorry guys but it is still too “dangerous” to send stuff directly to you overseas. It would be perfectly legal, but postal office clerks not always know the law.[/quote]

Thats new to me, as usually in all european countries postal Service forbids sending ammo in parcels/letters, if sent off internationally. Besides that, any sendings of ammo outside the Country does Need an Export paper…
Inside of Europe, components like bullets or empty or primed cases, are excempted from transfer-licensing by EU-Regulations, but this doesnt mean, that every european County does allow free sale/sendings of bullets and/or cases for their citizens…

In Germany itself they only allow the sending of live ammo for sendings INSIDE of Germany, if they are properly packed and the Sender makes sure, that only the named (licensed) recipient will get it…means, he must insure, that only a licensed Person will receive the parcel. This usually will only work with a highpriced Special Service with IDENT-Proofing of the recipient. This costs rougly 30,-€ per parcel…In Germany it is even forbidden, to hand the parcel out to the husband, except, this Person is itself a valid holder of an approbriate firearms-License…
Even, if many People do not obeye this, but in any case, it can cost the senders firearms licenses…

Components are free inside of Germany, to buy, to sell, to sent by any forwarder…

Welcome in Paragraph-Land, or EU (Europas Untergang) or EUDSSR

Greetings
PP


#12

Forensics,

I obviously speak about inert stuff, such as empty cases and bullets ( hunting and sporting types)
You can’t send live ammo by mail, even inside Italy

According the italian gun law, primers, primed cases and bullets can be obtained, imported and exported without any license.
Obviously live primers can’t be sent outside Italy by mail if an airplane is involved

Unfortunately very few clerks that work for customs or even italian postal service know that


#13

How about attaching a keychain to an inert round via an easily removable method such as hot glue. The package could then be labeled “novelty keychains”.


#14

Matt,
Wait a couple more weeks and You Will get some Black Mambas straight from Switzerland, with probably some other new items from RUAG.
For the BM, I only found those in one gun shop in the area. No great success.


#15

[quote=“jeffcy67”]Matt,
Wait a couple more weeks and You Will get some Black Mambas straight from Switzerland, with probably some other new items from RUAG.
For the BM, I only found those in one gun shop in the area. No great success.[/quote]
Sounds great my friend! See you in April.