9mmP blank?


#1

lacquer coated Steel casing with red wax mouth sealant. Brass primer is heavily double crimped. Headstamp it (asb 43 1 zst).

Joe





Find of the week, what is it?
#2

Hi Joe,

it’s a 9x21 German Flame Thrower Igniter for the Flammenwerfer 41.

Domi


#3

The extended Extractor groove gives it away as a Flammenwerfer Igniter. Any Packets out ther in IAA Land? The Labels would be interesting…

Doc AV


#4

Very interesting, thanks. For a dollar I figured I could not go wrong. I have not seen one of these before, but I am just a novice. Are these a common item or did I stumble upon a goodie?

Joe


#5

Joe,

At least one one time the German ones were fairly common, at least in my area. We even had a tray of them in our “Cartridge Collector” section in the store.

I never did see any package for them. There is a French Version and a Swiss Version also, very much the same in size and shape, so much so, in fact, that I always wondered if they weren’t for the German Flammenwerfer 41 or at least a copy of it. I actually have never seen pictures or any documentation on the flame throwers themselves, although I admittedly never have researched them.

I used to keep one of each specimen, by country and headstamp, in my collection because they were “like” an auto pistol cartridge. When I found my Swiss one split almost the full length, in my cabinet, I decided it was silly that I kept them anyway, and passed them on. Not silly for those who collect any military cartridge; just silly to “pretend” they were auto pistol cartridges because I liked them. :-(


#6

John, there is also a Czechoslovak variant.


#7

This cartridge was actually used by the flamethrower designated Flammenwerfer 41 mit Strahlpatrone, as the Flammenwerfer 41 did not used this type of ignition. All the German boxes that I have seen indicate loading at the DWM Lübeck-Schlutup factory (edq).


#8

Interesting about the loading factory. Every German igniter I have seen has a case made by DWM Berlin-Borsigwalde (“asb” ) code. Of course, they may have been others. I simply have never seen one. Of course, in German ammo, the headstamp only shows the case manufacturer. You cannot know for certain who loaded the cases without the box labels. Some students do know without the box labels because they are aware of factories that only loaded their own cases, or did certain loadings always in their own cases, but in general, especially for those of us not expert to that extent, need to have the labels to get the whole story.


#9

On this site you can see a picture, (scrol down) of a flamethrower with, on the left side, a opened package. Unfortunately small picture.

fjr2.be/Pagina%2017%20-%20He … eapons.htm

They had a 10 round 9mm blanc magazine attached at the nozzle


#10

Fede, the late production had also “tko” headstamps.


#11

Any idea if the cases for the FW41 mit Strahlpatrone (?Igniter cartridge?) were Drawn or Turned? The wide extractor groove would require a very Thick web; and the Mouth of the case, even though “rolled over” looks overly thick walled. Even the heavy crimp ring around the primer Pocket looks “turned” on the head, rather than “formed”. This would meet the requirements of a “high pressure” Case

Of course, they could have used a very thick slug ( Cup) of steel to give the thick web, but for a product which had a limited (c/f Ball ammo) production size, would it be worth setting up special machinery/tooling just to make them ( and in at least three factories (edq, asb and tko).

Doc AV


#12

The unloaded ones look much like drawn cases.

As for the case internals it would be great to see a cutaway of such a case.


#13

DocAV, photo of a box.

As mentioned Swiss & French also made this style. The French also made a rimless grooveless version, but likely for a different weapon as it has a longer length.


#14

Doc: Strahlpatrone means, literally, jet cartridge, just as Strahlflugzeug means jet plane. Jack


#15

Pete - what is the headstamp on the cartridges in the “edq” box? Are they “asb”?


#16

Not only the French and the Swiss, but also the Finns made this cartridge, as they all used the FW 41 or a very similar mode for several years well after WWII.

John says that his Swiss roud got split all along the case, he is unfortunately right, and I got the same problem with mine…

A very similar problem happens to many 26,5 mm Flares, the chemicals inside do age quite badly and often destroy the case. (It was one of the reasons why it was forbidden to shoot them later than 2 to 3 years fom loading, the other one being primers getting no more active).

Phil


#17

Not only the French and the Swiss, but also the Finns made this cartridge, as they all used the FW 41 or a very similar mode for several years well after WWII.

John says that his Swiss roud got split all along the case, he is unfortunately right, and I got the same problem with mine…

A very similar problem happens to many 26,5 mm Flares, the chemicals inside do age quite badly and often destroy the case. (It was one of the reasons why it was forbidden to shoot them later than 2 to 3 years fom loading, the other one being primers getting no more active).

Phil


#18

Czech brass cases also tend to split and corrode from inside.


#19

John
the box contains asb headstamped igniters.

My Swiss is also split completely down one side.


#20

I’ve checked out my specimen, headstamp (clockwise)

asb 44 1 25