9x19 "44 PJJ"


#1

If this is made in Danmark under German occupation, why did not Germans alter the headstamp to conform to their code and lot numbering system?
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#2

It is not a German round but Danish
Here is the box label.


#3

Vlad - that’s one of the mysteries of German-Occupation ammunition. It definitely was made by Hærens Amunitionsarsenal in Copenhagen, Denmark, under the German occupation, with “pjj” the assigned code. The 50-round boxes are printed in the German Style and language. One is pictured in Lew Curtis’ work on 9 mm headstamps. Dates of “44” and “45” are known, with a proof load known in the latter date. The proof load is not identified in any way on the cartridge, but the box for them is in the Woodin Laboratory collection, I believe. There are also dummy rounds, but they are the three case-cannelure style, and have an “X” overstamp on the headstamp, good indications that they are post-WWII remanufacture of wartime cases.

I don’t know of anyone who knows why the headstamp format differes so much from the German norm of this period.


#4

Vlad - I wasn’t going to mention it, but decided I would. The cartridge was not to exact German specifications. It is the Danish M1941 round, as you can see from the nice box label that Dutch posted just before my answer. I was not designation “9 mm Pistolpatrone 08” by the Germans. I have played with the theory that the headstamp did not follow the German pattern because the cartridges were not of the German pattern and therefore considered “Beutemunition,” (captured ammunition) even though manufactured under German IOccupation. Another example of this is .45 ammunition made in Norway, which right through 1945 continued the Norwegian military “RA” headstamp styles. Still another is the 7.65 mm Browning and 7.65 mm French Long ammunition with “oyj” code, also not German specification and also not following the German heaadstamp format.

The 9 mm Ammunition manufactured and packed to German standards in countries such as Czechoslovakia, Poland, Belgium (later in the war), etc. was designated “pistolpatrone 08” right on the German-Style 16-round boxes.

This is 100% conjecture on my part. I have zero documentation for it.


#5

Just to add to John’s comment above. The Germans apparently didn’t really “take over” the Danish ammunition factory the way they did in other occupied countries (Belgium, Poland, Czechoslovakia). In 1942 and 1943, the Danes were still making 9mmP with their national headstamp and box label showing no indication of occupation, even though they were occupied in April 1940.
http://www.vaabenhistoriskselskab.dk/medlemssider/uploads/vaben_foto/9x19%20HA-20080102-135516.jpghttp://www.vaabenhistoriskselskab.dk/medlemssider/uploads/vaben_foto/1941_9x19_Pistolpatron_M41-20080102-135755.jpg
(Photos from the excellent Danish ammo website vaabenhistoriskselskab.dk/ar … r_list.php)
This is probably because, accouding to Wikipedia, “Economic co-operation between Germany and Denmark continued until 1943, when the Danish government refused further co-operation and its navy sank most of its ships and sent as many of their officers as they could to neutral Sweden.” It is likely that the Germans established more control of the Danish ammunition production, but at that point did not attempt the type of integration they established in other occupied countries.

As John mentioned, the headstamp information would indicate something similar happened in France in 1944. Again, this is circumstantial and anyone with more detail information, than just this speculation and circumstantial evidence, please join in.

Cheers,

Lew

PS: I just found the following statement under the 44 PJJ headstamp on the Danish website referenced above.

[quote]Den 29 august i 1943 internerede tyskerne ledelsen på Hærens Ammunitionsarsenal, produktionen fortsatte under tysk kontrol, i foråret 44 blev bundstemplet på 9mm patronen ændret til pjj.
Produktionen fortsatte til krigens afslutning [/quote]

Which seems to say that in Aug 43 the Haerens factory came under the control of the Germans. I’m sure someone here can give an accurate translation.


#6

France could have had something to do with the Allied Invasion. I am sketchy on this - you forget a lot of your studies (my major in college was History with a big slant on 20th Century European history), but as I recall, until the invasion, there was occupied France and then Vichy France. After the invasion, there was no more pretext, I believe, and Vichy France fell under the complete control of Germany, for the short time they had left. Perhaps this even happened before the actual invasion, in anticipation and preparation for it. I know someone out there will have better insight into this that I do now.

It still appears to me that one major reason for non-German type headstamps in occupied countries was that the cartridges in question were not “German Standard” in caliber or design specifications.

Norwegian .45 ammunition never even had a code assigned - they just continued to produce with the standard Raufoss headstamp.


#7

I just noticed that the Danish box with the Crown in the typical Danish style before the introduction of the PJJ headstamp shows the ammunition loaded on 16 May 1944! The 1944 date is a surprise. My box is identical but has a 1943 loading date. After taking control of the factory, the Germans must have continued to use the existing stock of boxes.

Cheers,
Lew


#8

[quote=“Lew”]
PS: I just found the following statement under the 44 PJJ headstamp on the Danish website referenced above.

[quote]Den 29 august i 1943 internerede tyskerne ledelsen på Hærens Ammunitionsarsenal, produktionen fortsatte under tysk kontrol, i foråret 44 blev bundstemplet på 9mm patronen ændret til pjj.
Produktionen fortsatte til krigens afslutning [/quote]
Which seems to say that in Aug 43 the Haerens factory came under the control of the Germans. I’m sure someone here can give an accurate translation.[/quote]

That’s what the danish statement is saying:

“On 08/29/1943 the germans interned the leaders/management of Hærens Ammunitionsarsenal, production continued under german control, in the spring of 44 the headstamps of the 9 mm cartridges changed to pjj.
Production continued until the war ended.”