9x19 blank from fiocchi


#1

hello
i had a box of 9x19 blanks from fiocchi
brown box
headstamp: gfl 9m38 70

i just would know if these cartridges are made on one or two pieces ?

because at closer look ,i think i can see “two pieces”
norma case roll crimp over “false bullet” crimped blank (same construction as late dag 9x19 blank ,but with brass crimped “bullet” instead of plastic dag “bullet”)

i ask the question about gfl 9m38 70 rounds only

thank in advance for your response


#2

Do you have a photo of the cartridge. That would be a big help. Not sure what you mean by:

What do you mean by “norma case”???


#3

oops
i would say “normal case”

i don’t had good material to make hi resolution pictures

the cartridge look like same at the blank rounds headstamped gfl 9mm but with little less high crimping part (minus 1mm than the gfl 9mm headstamped round)

i find a picture on municion org (but is the gfl 9mm) you can see the ligne between case and “bullet”

i don’t had good vision to see if there are two pieces or one


#4

ammogun,

I think it is one piece. If this were a 2 piece case I think there is the risk of case separation and the crimped portion exiting the barrel or getting stuck in the barrel. Not a good situation.

Brian


#5

You should be able to see the needed detail with a good 10X magnifying glass & good light.


#6

hello
thank for your response

but i don’t had 10x magnifying glass


#7

Fiocchi 9 mm Blanks are found with a number of different headstamp or other variations. To my knowledge, they are all brass case and are one piece - no separate “bullet” (acuttaly the reduced diameter forward portion with rosebud crimp.

G.F.L. 9 M 3 8 67 (Long crimps, red crimp seal, nickel primer cup)
G.F.L. 9 M 3 8 70 (Short crimps, red crimp seal, nickel primer cup)
G.F.L. 9 M 38 70 (Short crimps, red crimp seal, brass primer cup)
G.F.L. 9 M M (Long crimps, no crimp seal, brass primer cup)
G.F.L. 9mm (Long crimps, no crimp seal, nickel primer cup)

There could be more, for sure, but those are all I have. I do have one very minor variant of the last one listed, that has a slightly shorted “case” (from head to mock case mouth) and the primer crimp lobes are not so curved, but rather straighter, somewhat like a truncated bullet might be. Very tiny variation, but I decided to keep it anyway.

The round with the capital “MM” is the same headstamp that appeared on ball rounds sold (and likely lighter loaded) in commercial 9 mm Glisenti-labeled boxes. I am NOT intimating that particular feature makes this a “9 mm Glisenti blank.” Simply an observation.

John Moss


#8

As a cartridge collector, a good glass and a magnet are invaluable tools for you. The glass allows you not only to see details, it isolates your eye / mind to the area your looking at, so the details register with you.

They are not all that expensive and sure help you to answer questions about the things your looking at. Like case mouth crimps, fine details within headstamps, bullet cannelures hidden under the case-mouth crimp, primer seals, all kinds of things that help you understand manufacture.


#9

Bausch & Lomb has a very high quality folding pocket magnifier that as I recall, is under 20 bucks. I buy them four at a time, whenever I have lost my last one. I am forever leaving them on tables at cartridge shows, or lending them “for a minute” to someone and forgetting to get them back. I buy them direct from B&L at what I guess is their home office. You can find them on the internet. I wouldn’t be without one in my pocket.

John M.


#10

hello
thank for your responses
for petedecoux ,i m a small collector and NORMALLY i don’t need magnifying glass


#11

Small collector or not, you can still learn, and hopefully you will soon be a bigger collector.
I don’t normally need a glass either, but I use one all the time. Amazing what you start to see & then start look for.
The longer you collect the more you find a need for knowledge. If for no other reason than to save your self money


#12

It’s a one piece case. Here you can see a sectioned example from 1970:

%209%20mm%20Parabellum%20a%20salve

Fiocchi also used this extended case for a Dynamit Nobel contract that was loaded as a grenade blank. These are headstamped “.DAG. 9 mm”.

Regards,

Fede


#13

Fede - I know asking you this makes it a pretty dumb question, but do you have documentation for the DAG blank you mention being actually made by Fiocchi?
I have had one of these for years, and never heard a word before about it being actually made by G.F.L. Great cutaway photo, by the way. From the primer cup, I would have thought the Fiocchi blank to be of the boxer primer type! Live and learn.

Ciao!

John


#14

John, I don’t have documentation, but if you compare a DAG grenade blank with a contemporary Fiocchi blank headstamped G.F.L. 9 mm you will realize that the “9 mm” marking is exactly the same.

Fiocchi also made blanks with a Boxer primer, like the one in your list described as “G.F.L. 9mm (Long crimps, no crimp seal, nickel primer cup)”.

Saludos,

Fede


#15

Fede - I evidently don’t have a commercially headstamped Fiocchi blank contemporary to the •DAG• 9mm blanks, as while they are similar, they are not identical to the “9mm” on my Fiocchi rounds. By the way, I have two of the blanks by DAG, one with red nose-crimp seal and primer seal, and one with a blue nose-crimp and primer seal. In both instances, the seals cover a wide band at the tip, almost like the ID Nose colors for special purpose 9 mm, like tracers. Do you know what it signifies. I also have a couple of DAG commercial blanks, with the same rosebud nose crimp, but a different configuration, again one with red seals and one with blue seals.

Perhaps the dots in front and behind “DAG” are to signify a case not made by them???

John M.


#16

thank for the picture of the cutaway

for john moss if i remember for the dag “grenade” rounds

blue seal :1.15 g black powder
red seal :0.4 g smokeless powder