9x19 finds from SLICS

  • @ John Moss: My point is quite simple: Can you be 100% sure that the 9X19 Romanian round was made in 2005 by “Sadu II” or “Sadu I”??? I did NOT say that “Sadu II” had not existed. Actually “Sadu II” plant was established during early 1970s. It is not important which section of the “U.M. Sadu” ammo plant made in the year 2005 that particular 9X19 round as long we know for sure that it was manufactured at “U.M. Sadu”. I also read that article directly in the Romanian language. The last sentence mentioned “that unofficial sources believed that ‘Sadu II’ will be closed”. In fact in February 2008, another Romanian newspaper printed that all the mechanical technology and tools from “Sadu II” and the complete industrial area of “Sadu II” [which was to be divided in 5 lots] will be put for sale. “Sadu II” used to be a huge area and the plant had many sections which manufactured various products. All those Romanian small arms ammo codes like “22” [before 1990], “321”, “322”, “323”, “324” and “325” did belong to “U.M. Sadu”. Orita 09/16/08
  • @ John Moss: I forgot to mention that “Sadu I” and “Sadu II” industrial areas were not on top of each other but were constructed in the same town area. Liviu 09/16/08

No, I don’t know for sure that Sadu II made that round and you don’t know for sure that the did not since you have offered no documentation at all to prove it one way or another. In fact, I never claimed they did. I was only addressing a point about Sadu II existing. Now you say you didn’t say the there was no Sadu I or Sadu II. You said that it was made at Sadu and made a big point about the name being just Sadu with no number after it. It is odd that you know agree they were numbered - from your original point, if you felt that it wasn’t made at Sadu II, then it would have to be made at Sadu I logically speaking, wouldn’t it? That means that the factory did have a number after it, not “plain” as you clearly claimed. If you are goig to be dogmatic about these things, you must expect to be challenged when the facts are documented otherwise. Since Sadu II was, according to you and the source you quote, which is good information for us to knwo, selling off their machinery in 2008, it is possible that they made the 2005 round, and it is possible they did not.

Also, I guess that somehow I might assume that the two factories were not built on top of each other - was that sarcasm really needed in an exchange of information, especially as an after-post?

Since neither of us know for sure anything about which factory made this round, I would consider the question closed, thank you.

Brad Dixon - I know what you mean.

  • @ John Moss: The Romanian armament industry was until the last few years a “taboo” subject in Romania and also abroad and any correct information about it is quite scarce. On page 39 [IAA Journal, issue 455, May/June '07] I wrote something about the Romanian ammo and weapons plant “U.M. Sadu” from Gorj county. If I don’t have the CORRECT information I don’t like to jump to conclusions [like others] and to say which plant [“Sadu I” or “Sadu II”] manufactured the 9X19 ammo in the year 2005. You’ll never find “official documentation” from Romania giving precise and reliable information about their ammo and weapons made there. At the same time I have to admit that during the last few years the remaining armament factories from Romania started to give a few details about their activity. One example is here at bumbesti-jiu.ro/umsadu/prezentare.html where something is said [with half a mouth] about the history of “Sadu” ammo plant. As you can see it’s a general description with few details about their production. For example during the early years of 1940s, “Sadu” [at that time an “Army Pyrotechny”] was making 7.92X57 ammo and 13.2X99 rounds for 13.2mm aircraft guns and 13.2mm AA guns but nobody admits this even now, after more than 60 years. “Sadu II” was constructed during the early years of 1970s and the ammo and weapons production in Romania became larger and larger. During the 1980s Romania was exporting huge amounts of ammo and weapons being one of the 10 top countries in the world in the business, making millions of US dollars in profit after selling military items in Middle-East and other countries. Perhaps this is an explanation why most of the Romanian headstamps from 1980s have NO maker’s mark in order to conceal the country of origin. After 1990 the Romanian armament production did slow down and today is surviving with great difficulty. It’s a sad situation and so many of the high qualified workers from the Romanian armament industry are not working anymore in their field. Liviu 09/16/08 P.S. I’m not sure what is the situation today with the “Sadu II” plant after the decision taken in February 2008 to sell at auction the indistrial area and all the tools and their technology.