9x19 headstamp dnh St+ 1 42 (Edit: “08 mE”)

This inerted example feels very light weight compared to a normal 9mm.
Projectile length-shape looks slightly different.
The case and the projectile are each strongly attracted by a magnet.
Black primer annulus.

I thought I would post this, just in case it might add to some of the previous discussions.

Any thoughts or comments?

Why inert?

hello
you can see the inertia puller marks on the extractor groove

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Why has the case such an odd color?

This is an P08 SmE loading. Bullet has mikld steel core to eliminate reduce lead whcih was in short supply. (The Black Bullet indicates the SmE load) actual bullet weighty was somewhere around100 grains vs 124 for P08 load with lead core. without the box this came in hard to say when loaded but by1942 the SmE load was showing up. The black bullets stayed in use until 1944 then the black was dropped as this was the std load.

Hi EOD,
If it helps…the photograph was taken in natural daylight and is a good representation of the actual color…black.

Hi ammogun,
I’ve just noticed that :slightly_smiling_face:

A few days ago I found the announcement of the adoption in Allgemeine Heeresmitteilungen. It is dated 11 Feb 1941.
To be exact, the cartridge designation is “08 mE”, the 08 showing it is pistol ammunition. The “SmE” is the rifle version of this bullet design.

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I have seen a lot of inert Pistolenpatrone 08, but never one with this black (case) color, a black mE bullet and such a, as looks a, live primer. The puller marks on the extractor groove could be caused by loading and unloading too? What is the weight?

Please weigh this round and post the result. dnh is of course the Geco factory. They did a lot of strange stuff. I have a number of light weight bullet rounds that I believe to be legit. One came to me from a guy who found it and he pulled the bullet with a pair of pliers. The bullet had a lead base so he cut into it and it turned out to be a relatively thin lead sheet and the bullet was filled with tar! I I have seen a German document that authorized tar as a replacement for aluminum as the core of 7.9x57 training rounds. residue is below
dnh 44 tar blt

I have written about these in the past but no new information surfaced.

Another example of a light weight bullet is below. the overall weight of the round is 69gr!
dnh pruple blt-69gr oaw

This is another dnh hst round but it is 94.5gr.
image

All of these have different dnh dated cases.

If anyone has information on these rounds, please let us know!

Cheers,
Lew

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for jaco

inertia puller leave characteristic marks on extractor groove especially on lacquered cases
some guys “inerted” rounds by simply dumping powder but don’t touch primer if they don’t know how because even primer can be dangerous to inerting (can be pierce an eye)

You will have to bear with me on the weighing.
Everything I and my friends purchase is already inerted.
I do not have any reloading equipment or small weight scales.
Therefore; I have used our kitchen electronic weighing scales :joy:
The scales were cleaned and were checked for zero between each measurement.

The weights will probably not be exact but; they will, hopefully, enable a relative comparison.
The comparison is the inerted Bulgarian, that I have shown previously.

Bulgarian-1

The measurements, in gram, are as follows:
Salter:

Zero:

dnh St+ 1 42:

ВДФ 43 (Държавна Военна Фабрика, State Military Factory in Kazanlak, Bulgaria:

In relative terms; two inerted rounds.
dnh St+ 1 42 = 9
ВДФ 43 = 11

As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, the (dnh St+ 1 42) feels very light.

Thanks Sam! 9g = 139gr so this is a normal mE round by dnh! I was hoping another light bullet dnh round had showed up.

I neglected to mention the dates on the three light bullet dnh rounds.
–disassembled round is '44
–GM color bullet is '42
–Brownish bullet with case mouth seal is '43

Cheers,Lew

I’ve not seen a WWII German 9mm with such a black case finish. It looks odd and too uniform to be an original lacquer finish in my opinion, particularly the base/head stamp area.

Does anyone have similarly colored WWII German 9mm in their collections?

Sam
it may have been taken in sunlight but you camers was set for indoors as the photo is blueish. I doubt your background material was that color.
So here is you photo & a color corrected version below it. All I did was add yellow to the photo & now have a white(ish) background & neutral color cast.
d654e7066eb82ce50227a917b7f19dc367c94d8b_2_689x365 color corrected

Hi Pete,
You are correct in that my background is a sheet of white printer paper. The camera is integral in a $100 Samsung iPad and the first photographs were taken this morning, in the garden.
The original idea of using white paper was to reflect the light and minimize the shadows.

Just for interest, during searching I came across the following from:

Luger: The Story of the World’s Most Famous Handgun, By John Walter.

The above mentions the; “m.E bullet was blackened until 1943,” and “had a black primer annulus.”
I’m slightly confused by the comment that; “m.E bullet was blackened until 1943,” followed by; “the steel examples having a coat of dark grey green lacquer.”
Does this mean that they were black until 1943 and, subsequently; “dark grey green?”

Looking at the photographs there appears to be feint longitudinal striations on the projectile. Is this characteristic of the “m.E,” or seen on other examples?

Sam,
When the mE bullet was introduced, it was blackened to make it obvious that it was not the normal lead core bullet. When production of lead core 9mm P08 bullets essentially ceased in 1943 the Germans stopped identifying the mE bullet with a black jacket since essentially all 9mm was either mE with a GM (copper) color jacket or SE with the gray bullet.

the “dark gray-green lacquer” refers to the coating used on the cases and has nothing to do with the bullets.

The statement on the case colors is misleading since the colors vary from a relatively light gray to medium gray to gray-green to dark brownish to a reddish brown (probably an experimental finish since it is loaded with an experimental SE core jacketed bullet). And, yes. even black lacquered cases. Mine have faa 44 and dnh 42 headstamps. There is a lot of variety in the finish color of WWII 9mm P08 steel cases.

I suspect your cartridge is a standard production Geco (dnh) steel. case mE load.

Production demands apparently forced companies to do a lot of things to meet production requirements. I have dnh loaded ammunition using faa (DWM) cases and 1937 Polte brass cases loaded by emp in 1943. I’m sure there were a number of manufacturers making the lacquer for the steel cases and each one likely was a somewhat different color and I also suspect the colors of at least some changed during the war as some of the ingredients became difficult to obtain.

Condition of your cartridge is very nice.

Cheers,
Lew

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Many thanks Lew and much appreciated.
Sam3

nothing wrong with using white paper. I do my photos for the auction catalogs on a light box.
Here it is lightened .color corrected more