9x19mm Blank ID


#1

Can anyone ID who made this one? NHS, plastic body, non-magnetic head.

Thanks,
Dave


#2

Gevelot.
It’s movie blank.


#3

Thanks, Hammer!

Dave


#4

Here is box with same type 7,62x63 ammo.


#5

I’m not sure if it’s true, but I hear these called “Longest Day” blanks, as it is is believed they were made in the 1960s for use in the D-Day movie of the same name.


#6

I was told that these blanks were a special production lot made for the movie “The Longest Day”. I believe they were also made in 30 Carbine.

Lew


#7

I wonder why they bothered to make them specially in brass (bronze) color. The movie was in black and white.

I collect .30 Carbine and have never seen a plastic French-made blank in any color. I do have two forms of Gevelot commercially-headstamped blanks in .30 Carbine, as well as a military headstamped (2 VE 49 C) grenade blank of American pattern. Can anyone confirm any French plastic-case blank of any color, with a photo, preferably. There is a yellow plastic blank, but I am told it is Norwegian, although it has a flat nickel-cup primer whereas all variants of the red plastic Norwegian blank I have seen have domed, nickel-cup primers.

At any rate, I too, have always heard these were made for “The Longest Day,” although I have never seen any documentation for it.

John Moss


#8

Since Norwegian blanks were mentioned, I’ll add a picture of my .30 collection:

Here are red, yellow and black plastic blanks.


#9

From what I can see of the rim, your black plastic blank is not Norwegian, but rather the Assman-patent blank from Austria. There is also a milky-white, translucent blank probably made by Huck in Germany, as well as a black one that could be from Huck as well. Aside from those, there are at least four variations of German black plastic blank made by Geco (Dynamit A.-G.) One is headstamped “Geco 2-65.” The German black plastic rounds have the full brass head like those from Norway, not just the rim like the Assman-Patent.

Also in plastic are the blue short range training rounds from Dynamit in Germany.

Can you tell us something about the last round in the your clip, at the right, that appears to have two rings on it? I have not seen that type before. It appears to be a Danish dummy by its form, but I had not heard of such a round before?

John Moss


#10

[quote]Can you tell us something about the last round in the your clip, at the right, that appears to have two rings on it? I have not seen that type before. It appears to be a Danish dummy by its form, but I had not heard of such a round before?[/quote]Though we used the M1 carbine for a few years after the occupation, they were swapped for some artillery with the norwegians. Neither HA nor AMA has ever made any ammo for the carbine. What little we did use, was that delivered by air mail (courtesy of the RAF) i.e. Peters, Western, Lake City, etc etc. Mostly Peters, that’s what we always find boxes for…
vaabenhistoriskselskab.dk/ar … r_list.php
Soren


#11

Thanks for your correction. I must admit I have very little knowlegde about ammunition, I thought they were all Norwegian. I’m also not able to spot the difference on the rim on those pictures, but maybe I’ll see it when I find the box. I think none of those plastic rounds have any headstamp.

To get more information about the dummie round, I need to find the box I’m storing it in, but I’ll get back once I find it.


#12

I enlarged your picture of the carbine rounds and now am not sure I was right about the rim of the black one, one way or another. On the Austrian Assman blank, only the rim and head itself is brass; the extractor groove and extractor-groove bevel are plastic. On the Norwegian and German types, the brass head of the cartridge includes the extractor groove and extractor-groove bevel. One of my German black rounds, I forgot to mention, has a white-metal head, very dull in color like “pot metal.”

John Moss


#13

I just found those rounds, and here’s a picture that shows the rim better:

And two pictures of my dummies:

The two on the left has headstamp L C 4, and the right one has P C 43

I don’t know anything about those, but if they are unknown in the States, I would assume they were made here by using spend cases. Again, I have very little knowlegde about ammunition, so it’s just a guess.


#14

O.K. My first impression was incorrect! Those black blanks are not the Assman-Patent from Austria, but rather appear to be the ones made by DAG in Germany. DAG and BF in Norway worked together when the Germans started developing their plastic blanks. This Forum had a long explanation of much of that, by Lew Curtis as I recall, centered on 9 x 19 mm Para blanks.

I only originally thought those dummies might be Danish because many of their dummy rounds (9 mm Bergmann-Bayard, 9 mm Para, 7.9 x 57, etc., have similar grooves around the case. I assume from the ammo can that you are from Norway. Those dummy rounds probably are made in Norway on American cases. They are NOT an American pattern. I have a Norwegian dummy of the pattern with a frosted case, three small holes in the case, and a black plastic bullet made on a WCC 45 American case. I also have a dummy that is nothing morethan a standard FMJ RN GM bullet in a NUPE case (boxer flash hole) from Raufoss, headstamped :RA 67".

Maybe if our famous Norwegian collector-friend comes to St. Louis again, he can bring us over some of those grooved-type carbine dummies!!: ) : )

John Moss


#15

Thanks again for your information.

You’re right I’m a Norwegian. Sadly, I don’t have any duplicates of those dummies, if I had, I could have sendt you one. Maybe I’ll get hold of more later.


#16

Could these be Danish? They look very much like.


#17

I don’t know if we are talking about the same Assmann; probably the Assmann brothers had several patents for blank cartridges. But the patent application filed in Spain in 1959 by Bruder Assmann, Ottokarkernstockgasse 16 (Steiermark), Austria, was about a plastic blank cartridge with a two-piece metal head. The center piece held the primer, and was put in place after the powder was loaded thru the cartridge’s head.


#18

I am sure we are talking about the same people. It is an Austrian company. I don’t know if this patent would apply. All of the Assman blanks I have seen (all black plastic, but I am not saying that is the only color they were made in - I think were some blue 5.56s, but maybe I am confusing them with short-range rounds) had the same very flat, large-looking nickel-cup primer, and the only brass showing was the flat disc-like portion forming the head and the rim. The extractor groove itself is formed into the plastic portion. Of course, I am sure the head goes up inside the plastic to hold the two together and form the primer pocket, but I don’t know if it is the patent you show. They don’t look like that.

I have these blanks in 7.62 Tokarev, .30 Carbine, and 7.9 x 57 Mauser. The made them in Mauser for several years, with just the date (four digit) as the entire headstamp.

EOD - I don’t think any of those carbine blanks are Danish. All shown are pretty well known. That doesn’t mean, of course, that Denmark couldn’t have used them. They have used a lot of Swedish ammunition, I know, in modern years, as well as ammunition from other countries.

John Moss


#19

[quote=“JohnMoss”]
EOD - I don’t think any of those carbine blanks are Danish. All shown are pretty well known. That doesn’t mean, of course, that Denmark couldn’t have used them. They have used a lot of Swedish ammunition, I know, in modern years, as well as ammunition from other countries.

John Moss[/quote]

John I meant the drill rounds with the 2 radial flutes as Denmark used to make from fired cases . You are right Denmark used after the war lots of US and British ammunition together with German abandoned WWII stocks. Today they have a huge variety of suppliers like the UK, Sweden, Canada, Switzerland, Germany, the US, Italy, Belgium, Austria (ceased to do Hirtenberger’s exodus) and who ever I forgot.

You are right about blue plastic blanks in Austria, it is the correct color code for blank ammunition in Austria today. Maybe somenody here can tell us when they switched from black to blue?


#20

EOD - Sorry pardner, thought you meant the blanks. I mentioned I thought they
might be Danish in my opening remarks, but evidently from the answers, they
are not, but rather Norwegian.

John M.