9X19mm Finds Today


#1

I am really not too knowledgeable about foreign 9mm rounds, but at the local gun show today, I ran across a group of boxes (16 round), some sealed and some not with various headstamps, so I bought them all at $5/box, without actually knowing whether that was a good deal or not.

  1. One open WWI box - Headstamped: DWM K 7 17 Obviously this means DWM -Karlsruhe was the manufacturer. These were brass cases with conventional, not conical, bullets. I can’t read Fractur, so I can’t interpret the label.

  2. Six WWII boxes - Headstamped: ak St+ 6 44 Looks like S&B (Munitionsfabrik Prague) was the manufacturer. All are sealed but one.

  3. One partial WWII box - Headstamped: dnf 2 St+ 44 Looks like RWS manufacture.

  4. Some odd steel 9mm rounds in the same box with #3 above, and this is a mystery. Headstamped: 9 (dot) M38F. 1944 (dot means there was a center dot) Also the F is smaller than the preceeding M38
    I can’t find what this one is from the IAA headstamp listing. Any answers?

I just found a couple of additional boxes not previously listed:

  1. A full but unsealed box - Headstamped: kam 67 21 41 Probably DWM

  2. A full but sealed box, which from the label is probably headstamped dnh 44 probably Gustav Genshow, Durlach

Were these worth $5/box? I also got four very nice condition full 25 round boxes of old GECO (2 boxes), DWM, and S&B 7.65mm (.32 ACP) for the same price, but I haven’t looked at their headstamps yet. From the boxes, I am sure they date from before WWII. All are marked in one way or another as having noncorrosive primers, and the GECO and DWM boxes are also marked “Oeldicht” (Oilproof).

The guy I bought them from had no idea what they were, and I don’t know much more than he does.


#2

DennisK,
You did very well. WWI 9mm boxes are always hard to find. The WWII boxes are more common but well worth $5 and sealed boxes sometimes are sold for up to $20 when mint to go in displays. I open all mine.

I suspect the 9.H38F 1944 that you may be misreading an M as an H. They are Italian. For the Beretta M38 machine pistol. The steel cases are harder to find than the brass. I don’t have a steel case in 1944 only in 1945.

The other war time 7.65 boxes are also good items. Good picken.


#3

I read the M38. Just a typo that it came out H38. I thought it might have been Italian. Would the little F mean Fiocchi?


#4

DennisK, When you described the 9.M38F 1944 cartridges as steel, did you mean that they have a steel color magnetic bullet or that the cartridge case was lacquered steel??? It is very rare to find a steel case Italian 9zx19mm cartridge. If you found a number of the 9.M38F 1944 steel case cartridges (all the ones I have seen are lacquered steel cases similar to the German cases) than you should be pleased because just one of them is worth quite a bit more than you spent on all of this ammunition. Even if they are brass case cartridges, you got a real bargin!

Cheers and contratulations!

Lew


#5

The cartridges bearing the code group “kam” were made in the former Polish arsenal at Skarzysko-Kamienna by the German firm HASAG. Jack


#6

There were two of the 9.M38F cartridges, both have steel cases. Both are somewhat rusty but otherwise OK. The kam cases I did not look up on the list. Rather, there is something mentioned on the box label about DWM. Label says: 16 pistolenpatronen 08 kam 21.L. 41; Nz. Stb. P.n./A. (0,8-0,8) has 1939/3; Skipping to the last line, it says:
Zdh. 08i D.W.M. 131.L.30 I do not know what most of that means, I just thought the D.W.M. probably meant that they were made by DWM. Guess not.

Regarding the 7.65mm cases, see picture. S&B headstamp is: SBP 7.65: Geco headstamp is: GECO 7.65; DWM headstamp is; K DWM K 479A. All bullets are cupronickel. No bullet weight is given. L to R, Geco, S&B, DWM. Note the “Made in Germany” legend on the DWM box. There is a lot of wording on the back side, but it is all in German, nothing else in English. Wonder why the English wording is on the front?


#7

Zdh.is the abbreviation for Zundhutchen whcih means “primer” and the indication on the label is that the primers were made by DWM, not an inordinate circumstance. The ammo was almost undoubtedly loaded by the HASAG plant in Poland, as Jack pointed out (“kam”).

Your Itlaian Fiocchi steel-cased rounds are a great find. I have collected 9mm for about 50 years and I have never seen a 1944 Italian steel-cased round. Congrats!