9x19mm MIC hst-S&B for Saudi Arabia and?


#1

Last year I was fortunate enough to obtain a specimen of a S&B round made for Saudi Arabia. It is the round illustrated below with the GM bullet and the blue painted primer and primer seal.

Recently the same headstamp turned up on a load with a brass bullet and “9X19 S&B” printed on the side. These rounds came in the white box illustrated. These rounds were clearly loaded in unused cases from the Saudi contract. The printing on the side meets the requirements for commercial sale in Germany. A pallet, or more, of this ammo turned up in the US. The box label is unusual and interesting. There are no markings on the box other than those illustrated and the date??? code inside the end flap which is 1550/333.

The “MIC” on the headstamp stands for “Military Industries Corporation” which is a public corporation providing support to the Saudi military (according to Wikipedia).

Does anyone have any idea of the meaning of “C” just before the year (13)???

Cheers,
Lew



Abu Dhabi 9mmP
#2

Here is a link at Sportsmans’s guide where they were selling it. It is out of stock now and was probably all gone by Dec 2013:

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=1529921&CJ=1&cjaffilid=4084797&cjaffsite=Slickguns+Inc&cjadv=CJTSGUSA&cjadvid=1522857&utm_source=Slickguns+Inc&utm_medium=CJ&utm_campaign=SPG+Product+Catalog±+SportsmansGuide.com

The wording of “The cartridges marked 9x19 S&B” is very odd and seems like a straight computer translation of what might have made more sense in Arabic if they were just doing a quick box label translation to sell left overs.


#3

Lew, the side markings do apply to the CIP rules. So it is not only valid for Germany but all other CIP signatories.


#4

Lew, these cartridges with caliber and manufacturer marked on the side of the case were intended for the European market, but this particular Sellier & Bellot box was made for Magtech distribution in the States. I ignore which was the original box for the European market, if any was actually made.


#5

DK - the phrase on the box about being marked 9 x 19 S&B did seem like some sort of bad translation to me also, until I stopped to think that the cartridges are marked on the side of each one “9 x 19 S&B.” So, that phrase on the box means exactly what it says in perfectly good English - that the cartridges are marked “9 x 19 S&B.” That is a pretty unique box label. I have not seen it on other European boxes that had CIP-required markings on otherwise military surplus ammo. In this case,
they really didn’t need to mark the caliber on the side, as it is on the headstamp already. The S&B was necessary because of the “MIC” headstamp, even though made by S&B.


#6

Box Without the price tag. I dropped the ball on Lew’s box having a price sticker. The label is Ink Jet and removing the price tag is tricky. I was not available to remove and ship myself. Worst thing was, I forgot he was on vacation and had a friend ship the box, when I could have waited and have done a proper job of it. Hast makes wast and now I feel bad he has a ugly price sticker that is tricky to remove. Sorry Lew.


#7

Fede,

Correct as far as I was told. My friend, the owner of UNAC, a local ammo shop where I bought five boxes, (shot one, traded 2 away and other two was reimbursed by local collector friend that also wanted 2 boxes) was offered to him a few months back as he gets regular sales calls from them. They just told him they had this deal and offered it as generic S&B. It was shipped on pallets in standard S&B cardboard packing boxes. Nothing unusual. When he opened the boxes, that’s when he called me and asked me to come take a look. As when he called the sales rep back, there was no history offered. My initial assessment to him was a canceled military contract and it was printed on the casings to meet CIP rules. Similar to the 5.56x45 that came into the USA a few years back, printed on the side of the casings.

Joe


#8

Just spoke with the owner at UNAC and he will be getting more of this S&B labeled ammo in two different bullet weights. He was currently waiting at his large warehouse for the truck to show up. I will take a trip down there tomorrow to see what came in. He also has some IMI “Reference” rubber stamped ammo in different calibers that has finally made it from warehouse to showroom floor. The boxes have the old style blue plastic “sampson” trays in the boxes. They were packed in .50 Cal metal ammo boxes and stenciled in English some codes. I have found over the years he is a good person to know, as he is always coming up with odd stuff.

Joe


#9

Questionm:
Printed on case to meet CIP rules (for headstamp missing calibre)???..I thought this only applied to Germany for Milsurp ammo ( at least, they started it.) Has anybody seen this “Marking” on ammo by Other European Nations (Not for Sale in Germany?) but for sale in say, Italy or France?

The Germans must think shooters are really Dumb…if they require this Identification…

Doc AV


#10

The CIP requires caliber and manufacturer (a registered trade mark). This is not a German regulation as the CIP applies to all signatories.
Also the CIP does not reflect on an ammo source like surplus or overrun from differently marked cases or what ever. It is just about the agreed marking.


#11

I suppose that’s why FNB has either “7,62” or “5,56” or “12,7” included in its Military headstamps…still, in the headstamp is understandable…but individually printing it on the sides of cases (which, in the most cases are of Military Surplus, or non European production, etc…The phenomenon of the “Inked stamp” started back in the 1980s, on Mil-Surp ammo being sold in Germany…what a Pain, unpacking millions of rounds, inking them individually ( some were done by Hand) and repacking, and sealing the packets…gone any “sealed Packet Collector Value”…It would take a German Legislator to think up such a silly regulation…and the Belgian Based CIP (or is it French Based? the wording is in French Language) to insist on it…Euro Burocracy gone mad…Just Like the US anti Gunners who want Cartridge Primers or Gun Firing Pins micro-stamped…Shades of “Yes Minister” ( Our British and Aussie friends will know what I mean).

End Rant…NO politically incorrect statements here, just 1st Amendment (US) and “Political Free Speech” (Aust.Constitution & High Court of Australia, Lange v ABC)

Doc AV


#12

In this case the headstamp clearly states the caliber, so what need for inking the side of the casing.

Joe


#13

I assume they had the marking machine still set up that way from processing cartridges with other headstamps (NATO symbol instead of calibre, for example).

By the way, at the core of this not the marking process but the testing of the ammunition (in the above case done by the Czech proof house) to make sure that it complies with CIP rules, especially maximum pressure. For example, the German military 9x19 types exceed CIP limits significantly and cannot be sold as surplus.


#14

DocAV, “Yes Minister” was also aired here in Germany.
After about 35 years in civil service I must say: typical British understatement. Reality is even worse.


#15

Bought a whole case, as I could not resist…

100% Non magnetic.

Edit: l almost forgot, the distributor returned email question as to original destination after he contacted S&B for answer. The reply was, it was produced for Southern European law enforcement and this excess is a contract overrun.

Joe







Sellier & Bellot 4.6x30mm 40gr FMJ
#16

Joe, the “P.S.” should have been for Italy.


#17

Thanks Alex. That would be Southern Europe.

Joe


#18

Southern Europe…Italy…PS Publicca Sicurezza/Polizia di Stato. ( Interior Ministry)

Doc AV


#19

PS = Public Safety / State Police. Interesting…
You would think they would have asure the contract go to an Italian company.

Joe


#20

Joe, the EU today predicts that all govt. tenders have to be open to all EU member states. This is the reason why we see so many police and partially military cartridges within europe which are made by “neighbouring” countries.
Not all procurement departments are happy with that as it creates more work and last but not least raises the chance that the contract will be given to places abroad.