A couple of box identification questions - Rem and Fed


#1

Last week, I lucked into 5 boxes of Remington factory .30 Remington as part of another deal. These boxes were of the more recent design, with the front (or top) half green and the rear (or bottom) half yellow. By using the decoding method described in IAAJ #469, these appear to date between 1985 and 1991. Would that date range be correct for this box design? Or am I off by 11 years?

Codes were D23U (1985?), K21C (1988?), R18K (1991?), and two which were E22C (1986?)

Second question - When did Federal start loading centerfire metallic cartridges commercially? I think maybe sometime in the 1960s, but I am not sure. I have four boxes of Federal cartridges in the “flip top” box configuration in .38 Special and .45 ACP, the one where one box end is hinged, sort of like a Marlboro cigarette pack. About when were those on the market?


#2

Dennis–For the dating of Remington boxes go to the following on the IAA Homepage:

cartridgecollectors.org/document … -Dates.pdf

As for the Federal, I think it was 1962 when they started making Centerfire Rifle. At least that is when they put out their first Retail Catalog.


#3

With that information, it appears (assuming the same date coding system applies) that K21C is 1978, R18K is 1981, and E22C is 1976, as all those boxes are from Bridgeport with duPont. The one that does not fit is D23U. That box is labeled as being from Lonoke with no duPont, putting it in the 1993-1996 date range. But there is no D date code in that range (D would suggest 1997). Maybe it is actually a 1997 code stamped on an old box in inventory (possible) or that Remington changed their coding system (also possible).

I don’t know when Remington stopped selling loaded .30 Remington ammunition, but this establishes that they did make it until at least the 1993-96 period. I would have expected that it would have ceased prior to that.

Now, how about the Federal flip-top box?


#4

Dennis–To ascertain the first and last cataloging dates for a Remington load, go to the following on the IAA Homepage:

cartridgecollectors.org/ammuniti … /Remington

Almost all the Remington catalogs from 1911 to 2012 are available there so you can research them. If a Dealer Price List is available for the year of interest, it will be quicker to look at them rather than the Retail Catalog to check if a load is still listed.


#5

Dennis–I do not have the Federal 1962 catalog, but the 1963 catalog only lists 2 pistol loads. They are Monarch brand Load number 38A, .38 Special Mid-Range (Match), 148gr. Wadcutter and 45A .45 Automatic (Match), 230gr. FMJ.

If your boxes are a different load number, give it to me and I’ll see what I can find.


#6

Those are what I have.


#7

Dennis–Do the Federal boxes have the “Child Warning” on them? If not, then your boxes are either 1962 or 1963. The “Flip-Top” boxes were last used in 1969. Boxes from 1964-1969 will have the “Child Warning”.


#8

They have the child warning. My interest was in finding whether the flip-tops were anything unusual and of limited production or if they had been produced for some length of time. I just have not seen any, other than those I have. I remember another box of .38 Special wadcutters packed in a similar type box, maybe Sako (not sure about that)? If I find it I will post a picture.


#9

[b]"Dennis–To ascertain the first and last cataloging dates for a Remington load, go to the following on the IAA Homepage:

cartridgecollectors.org/ammuniti … /Remington

Almost all the Remington catalogs from 1911 to 2012 are available there so you can research them. If a Dealer Price List is available for the year of interest, it will be quicker to look at them rather than the Retail Catalog to check if a load is still listed."[/b]

.30 Remington is still cataloged in 1997, but is not shown in the 1998 catalog. And the 1997 catalog shows pictures of both the older half-green and half yellow boxes, along with a newer box design. So I am guessing my green and yellow box with a lot number dating of 1997 is correct, and is probably the very last loading by Remington of the .30 Remington caliber.

Some of the catalogs take a l-o-o-o-o-n-g time to download. But slow is better than not at all.


#10

Dennis–Glad you found the info you wanted on the .30 Remington load dates. As for the slowness of the download of some of the catalogs, it is always a compromise between download time and resolution. The files could be smaller and, thus, make downloads faster, but then you probably would not be able to read the small type of the ballistic tables, etc.