A nice 9 parabellum box


#1

A friend wants to know more about this box. I think it is turkish or for Tukey…




chassepot


#2

Chassepot, great box! This is most likely a FN product from mid to late 1920’s (surely post-1925). It seems that a proper translation of the side note should be “Smokeless powder and lead core”. I wonder if those bullets have a FN mark in their bases.

A similar box in 7.63 mm Mauser was discussed here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11626&hilit=7.63+mm+mauser+turkish


#3

Definitely Turkish; besides the “Powder, Cartridge & ?AV? Materials Monopoly” heading, underneath is “Askeri Fabrikalar Mamuleti” which means "Military Factories
(administration) at Mamuleti.

The Askeri Fabrikalar ( Military Factories administration) was set up by Kemal Ataturk, whilst he was Chief of Ordnance under the Sultanate ( 1920); it then became, under the Turkish Republic,(1922) the sole (Monopoly) organisation furnishing arms and ammunition to the Turkish Armed Forces, with administrative headquarters in Ankara, the new Turkish capital.

Since the packet is printed in Western (Roman) script, it is Post-November 1928 ( Decree of abolition of the ancient Turco-Arabic script, and rapid ( 2 month) introduction of a Latinised Turkish Alphabet, to more correctly denote Turkish language pronunciation, on a Latinate(Euro) Pronunciation system.

The headstamp “F TC I” is Fisek (Cartridge) Turkiye C(h)umhurieti (Turkish Republic) I ( ?Iskanderun? Ammo Factory? or “Inhisalari”== Monopoly). Since the “FI” description is present on nearly all Turkish produced ammo ( at different factoires, from 1929 to 1950, I would say the correct interpretation is “Cartridge Monopoly” rather than any particular Factory location.

As to being FN, whilst the Cases may have been “Made” by FN, and Post-1928, the cartridges may have been assembled in Turkey. The package is certainly Post-Nov. 1928. Similar printed HP (Hirtenberger) packets with 1928 date 7,9mm ammo denote “HP” as the maker.

Even today, Turkey still tenders out contracts for empty 9mm cases ( last saw a tender doc. last year, for 50 million 9mm Parabellum cases( empty) to Nato design specs, for loading by MKE in Turkey). ( Makina ve Kemia Endustrisi Kurumu-Machine and Chemical Industries Corp, the successor to ASFA ( Askeri Fabrikalar) by way of “Public corporatization” ( still Govt. controlled, but not a part of a Ministry, as it was when founded in the early 1920s).

The difficulty for translating Turkish by Google etc, is that Turkish words have grammatical endings according to their Case and Plurality, so that the exact word will not show up, but only its “stem”. EG, One Factory is “Fabrika” but a group of factories, especially if “linked”, is “Fabrikalar”.

Interesting Language, Turkish.

Regards,
Doc AV

PS, after having reviewed the long list of Postings (2009) referred to above ( under “7,63 Mauser” heading, The “Inhisalari” interpretation as “monopoly” is correct ( in “F TC I”). Ataturk truely had all ammo and gun production under gov’t monopoly control right from the start of the Republic (both civil and military). This situation has only relaxed since Turkey has changed its Laws to meet EU entry requirements ( abolition of all Gov’t Monopolies)…hence the growth of privately-owned gun factories manufacturing a range of sporting and police use Shotguns and handguns ( no CF rifles, yet, except for export ( to USA, ie, Remington).

Doc AV


#4

DocAV, although the Arabic script was officialy changed to the Latin alphabet in November 1928, the later was already in use years before, specially by companies dealing with foreign countries. The monopoly was created in 1925.

There is a SFM drawing dated March 15, 1929 showing an identical headstamp with “9.P.” at 6 o’clock, but no specimens are known. It was ordered through Turkish company Fils d’Aslan Fresco.


#5

Frankly, I don’t care at all about 9mm para ammo (sorry, Lew) but DocAV’s explanation above is an absolutely fascinating history lesson, with linguistics as well.

Greatly appreciated, and one of the reasons I real ALL the posts, even on topics I don’t actually care about.


#6

Cool! Is there a pronounced crimp holding the bullet in place, or is it due to lighting? For a cartridge that headspaces on the case mouth, a crimp could create problems.


#7

Doc AV, 2011 contract cartridges for MKE were made by S&B and Fiocchi. Both are headstamped MKE 9P 11.