A Unknow Cartridge


#1



This pics from a friend, we can not confirm its type.
If you konw, tell me please.


#2

With out the actual bullet diameter it seems to be close to a 56-50 Spencer rimfire. And it make sense due to the fact China bought a large number of Spencer rifles after the US Civil War. Vic


#3

tiengulden, Is there the residue or a headstamp on this cartridge???


#4

Over length: 41.5mm
Case length: 31mm

Diameter
bullet: 12.5mm (maybe .50 Cal)
Mouth: 13mm
above Rim: 14mm
Rim: 16mm

no headstamp


#5


#6

The reported dimensional data are close to those of the 56-50 Spencer RF cartridge.


#7

Nin hao ma?,
Besides sales of US-made Spencer carbines and rifles after the Civil war, by traders into China, the Imperial Arsenal at Tien-tsin (Tianjin), with technical assistance from Remington Armory, manufactured Spencer 56-52 Rimfire ammunition for Tientsin-made Copies of the Remington M1867 Rimfire Rolling Block rifle, and in the 1880s also made .43 Remington and .45/70 ammunition for the imported M1882/Chinese Model ( aka M1884) Remington-Lee bolt action Rifle.
Tien-Tsin Arsenal is also reputed to have made a Chinese “Jingal” (Rampart gun) based on the Remington-Lee Action, but in .65 Gatling calibre.
A Lee on Steroids, all the parts are about 50% bigger. An example is to be found in the British Imperial War Museum.

My examples of the Tientsin Rolling block rifles, and Imported Remington Lee rifles were “souvenirs” from the Australian Colonial involvement in the Revolt of 1900 (“I Ho Chuan”, or “Boxer” rebellion.)
Sailors of the Victorian Naval Contingent were involved in the capture and securing of the Stores of the Tientsin Arsenal, and numerous of the Rifles in store there became “Drill Rifles/souvenirs” for the Contingent when it returned to Australia in March 1901…the rifles carry Butt stampings which indicate "Australian Commonwealth (AC) and VNC (Vic. Naval Contingent).

As the Australian Commonwealth was declared in January, 1901, the VNC went to China as a Colonial Navy, in 1900, and returned as part of the Royal Australian Navy in 1901.

Since the Arsenal had the capacity of making .56/52 Rimfire cases, it is highly likely they could also make other Rimfire ammunition, such as the .56/50 cartridge ( BTW, this was a Carbine cartridge for the most part).

The Numbers refer to the relative case body and bullet diameters ( a .56/56 was a straight case, with a .56 diameter Bullet, the more common .56/52 was a .56 case with a neck-down to hold a .525 diameter bullet, and so on.

The Most common Remington Rolling block calibre in Spencer Rimfire was the .56/52 For rifles.

The rimfires were soon obsoleted by 1870s Centrefire designs, but in China, Rimfire ammo was still being made for the early guns up to the early 1900s.

Regards,
Doc AV
" Fan Shi-de"

AV Ballistics,
Australia.


#8

Spencer 56-50

but the case shape looks different