A variety of .50 cal


#1

Bet these won’t “run” very well. I’m guessing the Chief has been on leave for awhile. Pretty cruddy and apt to jam up the works. Who is it that likes all the colors???
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#2

Current production Mk211 API (“Raufoss”), with current production M20 APIT, and WW2 vintage M2 AP, linked 1:1:1:1:1. See packaging photo below.


#3

Nice pic and info. I think it is Pepper who is really into color tipped projectiles? Is that soldier on a tank 50 cal?

Jason


#4

Looks much like they are using up their museum stocks. What 3rd world country may do this?


#5

Apparently US forces used WW2 Vintage .50BMG ammo in the 1991 Gulf War. Are they still using up stocks of it today?


#6

The pic came off a Navy “weapons” pic web page. I’m guessing it’s a foreign Navy. Can’t imagine even THINKING of using that gunked-up ammo to defend myself. Two, maybe three rounds before things start jamming. The M2 is a fine weapon, but even it has limitations.


#7

We had WWII vintage .50 BMG isued to us during the Gulf War.

AKMS


#8

AKMS - I would almost be willing to bet it never skipped a beat, too.

When I was in the Army in the 50s and 60s, I never saw any small arms ammunition that was made after 1945. We never had trouble number one with any of it - it all functioned and fired flawlessly. We didn’t have any need to use rounds in a state of condition like that in the picture, but I wouldn’t stand in front of the Muzzle of that Ma Deuce even after it fired twenty or thirty rounds like that.

I have fired Evansville Chrysler .45 ammunition within the last ten years, all made in 1942-1944 (they had made so much by 1944 that production was halted, even though at that time, the war was predicted to go on until as late as 1947), Chrysler had no particular experience in making ammunition, but got some help from Winchester. They surpassed all expectations for quality, cost and quantity, regardless of the fact that no U.S. firm had a lot of experience with steel cased rounds. those rounds are still good today, unlike much of the German 7.9 ammunition that is rotting from the inside out. Chrysler’s performance in WWII is a miracle story on its on, not related to this thread’s question, but if anyone is interested, find a copy of “Bullets by the Billion” and read it. It is worth the read!


#9

Never had a problem with the WWII vintage .50 BMG ammunition. During my entire six years of active USMC duty (1987-1993) and a lot of time behind 'ol Ma Deuce, only ONCE did I see current production ammunition. All of our other .50 BMG was 1944 and 1945 dated API and APIT in the usual 1:5 ratio. A lot of what we used was re-linked for the M-85 cupola-mounted MG on the M-60 tank. As I recall the ammunition for the M-2 was “re-worked” at one time or another, based on the markings on the cans. We shot 5.56 tracer ammunition from the 1960’s as well as M-67 Frag Grenades and M-72 LAW AT rockets from the same era…

AKMS


#10

The reason for the M2 AP was that the Navy wanted something that was the best penetrator of metal they could get. API/APIT has slightly less penetration than M2 AP. Mk211 has slightly less penetration than API/APIT. At the time, the only thing available was WW2 surplus AP, still in Navy inventory. The US hasn’t made plain old AP in .50 cal since the end of WW2, so that’s all that was avaiable. It was still factory fresh. Since then DoD has had SNC/IVI of Canada make up some new lots of .50 AP on a limited basis.

The condition of the ammo in the photo is understandable. You must remember that this is NAVY service. No luxury of keeping the gun & ammo under wraps till you want to take someone on like in the Army ! That weapon is loaded & manned 7x24 unless they’re in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific. (All weather, sea spray continually coating you.) Any place within small boat range requires those weapons be manned & ready to repel an attack. I’ve seen both photos and actual ammo in person that looked the same. Only takes a week of exposure at sea, if uncovered, to make the ammo go from mint to the condition illustrated. Yes, they’d still shoot it if the need arose. After returning to port, it’s replaced.


#11

[quote=“50m2hb”]The reason for the M2 AP was that the Navy wanted something that was the best penetrator of metal they could get. API/APIT has slightly less penetration than M2 AP. Mk211 has slightly less penetration than API/APIT. At the time, the only thing available was WW2 surplus AP, still in Navy inventory. The US hasn’t made plain old AP in .50 cal since the end of WW2, so that’s all that was avaiable. It was still factory fresh. Since then DoD has had SNC/IVI of Canada make up some new lots of .50 AP on a limited basis.

The condition of the ammo in the photo is understandable. You must remember that this is NAVY service. No luxury of keeping the gun & ammo under wraps till you want to take someone on like in the Army ! That weapon is loaded & manned 7x24 unless they’re in the middle of the Atlantic or Pacific. (All weather, sea spray continually coating you.) Any place within small boat range requires those weapons be manned & ready to repel an attack. I’ve seen both photos and actual ammo in person that looked the same. Only takes a week of exposure at sea, if uncovered, to make the ammo go from mint to the condition illustrated. Yes, they’d still shoot it if the need arose. After returning to port, it’s replaced.[/quote]

Hello 50m2hb,

Whilst agreeing with you on the rapid effects of real salt spray (not the artificial stuff they use in tests) there must be some precautions which could reduce the damage. I know that if that was a gun that I was responsible for I would try a few brushed/sprayed protective coatings. The main worry for me is the bit that you can’t see, the junction between the cartridge case and the link. The salt water will have seeped into there and corroded both case and link, this must affect the pull-out loads for the gun feed. Can the .50 BMG tolerate waxed, oiled or greased ammo?

gravelbelly


#12

I don’t know what country or branch of service that guy is in, but I’m here to tell you that such a thing would have never been tolerated in the United States Navy! Not ever!

JMHO

Ray


#13

I second what Ray says. There was, and I’m sure still is, a PMS schedule for everything on the ship. EVERYTHING. That ammo would be changed out and cleaned daily. That is not a US Navy weapon. The rust has been evolving for some time as has the salt crust and verdigris on the ammo.


#14

Rick, even the gun is rusted, no way it is a civilized army.


#15

You don’t recognize the cammo uniform ???
jp


#16

You don’t recognize the cammo uniform ???
jp[/quote]

I think half the world has it like that.


#17

I too agree that the condition of the gun, mount and ammunition is totally unacceptable by any standard. Maybe the M-2 will run that ammunition, but I would not want to bet MY life on it! Remember the old Navy saying? “If it moves, salute it, if it does not move, paint it!”. Sailors are constantly cleaning and oiling and protecting EVERYTHING from corrosion…

AKMS


#18

[quote=“EOD”]
You don’t recognize the cammo uniform ???
jp[/quote]

I think half the world has it like that.[/quote]

Hi Alex,

The jacket looks like to be with cammo.
Almost every country in the world has its own pattern.
Same remark for the helmet.

If we can have a picture showing a little more of the jacket and helmet I can ask a friend who is a very very big cammo collector.
jp


#19

Weapon looks fine, but the mount and ammo look bad. The cammo appears to be a standard US-type “woodland” pattern. Might be easier to ID the place by IDing the vehicles in the background.


#20

The quotatins are gettin messed up here, see JP’s post above and I deleted mine here again because of that.

Can the admins please check it out?