A warning to all cartridge collectors!


#1

This time it


#2

Incredible! That is a real shame and sickining. I totally feel for you and hope that does not happen here in the US. I heard talk about all new ammunition being serial numbered on each cartridge in the future here.

Jason


#3

Sorry - know we are not supposed to be political and delete this if wish, but it is an important issue. I will call things as I see them. If the Democrats achieve veto proof control of congress, and worst, get control of all of congress and the executive branch, we will be on the same road as Portugal is taking very quickly. Anyone who believes “Shotgun” Biden, a man so stupid he thinks that FDR was President in 1929 and that we had television then, and Obama will support gun owner’s rights, despite their mutterings about supporting the court decision on the Second Amendment - a frightenly weak and almost meaningless decision (read the whole decision folks) - look at their records on gun control. Look to California to see what the left wing is doing abouth guns and ammunition. My collection was gutted by their laws.


#4

This is a pretty severe change, I rembmer contacting you by private message last year before visiting Portugal, I asked if I was likely to find any cartridges there. You said any ammunition made before 1st January 1980 was completely un restricted, and could be owned without any kind of licence.


#5

Many of you may recall the abundance of militias during the Clintonista era. Guessin’ there’ll be a resurgence of same if the big O wins. It ain’t gonna be pretty.


#6

Wow that’s insane! Because there is obviously Sooooo much gun crime in Portugal that needs to be stemmed by banning blanks, and de-milled cartridges… That should take care of all 3 of the murderers running rampant in the Portuguese countryside… Wow, what a crazy government, who elected the officials that passed that law? Advice: Purchase a blow-gun and practice huffing and puffing.


#7
  • Portugal in my opinion has never been a free and democratic country and I’m not amazed by what happens there. => Speaking about our “Election 2008”, it’s up to us (or should I say the “electoral vote” ???) who is going to rule here. Liviu 09/26/08

#8

Living in Britain I have strong views on the subject which I won’t bore you all with because you can guess most of it.
Here they have recently banned toy guns!!! (so called realistic replicas).

Has it reduced crime? No.


#9

In Italy all guns and ammunition must be registered and you can have the loaded cartridges for use them only.
You can only collect inert empty cartridges because you don’t need any licence to buy or have spent cases,primed cases,primers or bullets ( all but special military ones like AP,tracers etc)
No exceptions from paper cased cartridges to CF,from pinfire to RF of any age


#10

Yes, its not Portugal alone:

All European Union members states have to change their gun laws until 2010 according to a new guideline of the EU commission. This guideline was supposed to be based on the UN firearms protocol that has the goal to stop illict arms trades to African civil war countries (against “ethnic clensing”, “child soldiers” etc.).

However, the green representative in charge for this at the EU commission, Mrs. Kallenbach, used this protocol to start a crusade against legal gun owners in Europe. Other representatives seemed to be ignorant of that topic or simply not interested. Drafts of the guidline were partially not available to the public, legal gun owners in Europe were left without a clue what would be the outcome of her work. Inquiries to your EU representatives were simply not answered (you would get an automated reply email saying “your email was deleted without being read”). Unliker the U.S., people in EU most of the time don’t get any information of what their representatives in Bruxelles are about to pass. (You are actually getting “nice” surprizes every now and then, for example the new law about recording all telephone and internet connetion data for all people in Europe without a court’s approval. Nobody knew that something like this would be passed - if I had known, I would have protested! Well, OK - the NSA in the U.S. are doing the same thing, arn’t they? )
I hope this gives you an idea of what the EU is all about - no wonder they did not want to ask the people in a referendum about the new EU constitution.

Anyway, the bottom line of the new EU gun law guidline is:

  • There will only be two gun categories: forbidden guns and licensed guns.
    To aquire a gun license you will need to have a “good cause” why you would want to have a gun. How to interpret that “good cause” lies in the hands of the national parliaments.

  • All firearms have to be registered centrally. As we all know, registration is the first step on the way to confiscation (the Communist salami-tactics: cutting off only very thin slices at once, until the entire salami is suddenly gone).
    Who will carry the costs for all this useless bureaucracy is clear: the gun owner or at least the tax payer.

How the national parliaments are goingt to include these two basic points into their gun laws is uncertain. What kind of additional bans or regulations they are going to introduce while they are at it (something that could affect cartridge collecting as well) - nobody knows …
What was supposed to stop illegal arms trades to African nations has ended up in a bureaucratic monster affecting nobody but perfectly legal private gun owners. At the same time we sit and watch as the EU turns into a centalized, super-bureaucratic injustice state: the EU-SSR.

Sorry to depress you …
Chris


#11

About Italy,the things,with the new EU laws could only get better or at least remain the same…


#12

Blow-guns are about to became illegal acording to the same new Law…


#13

[quote=“Vince Green”]Living in Britain I have strong views on the subject which I won’t bore you all with because you can guess most of it.
Here they have recently banned toy guns!!! (so called realistic replicas).

Has it reduced crime? No.[/quote]

Those toys are forbidden in Portugal to, and this new law will considerer as a


#14

Even toy and water pistols?Incredible


#15

Uhhhh… Purchase a slingshot then???

Gees I feel more privileged everyday having a vault full of “assault weapons”, and a .50 caliber rifle in my basement, I will never take that for granted. If any of you IAA Europeans ever come to Maine, I would be honored to let any of you take them for a try at my local shooting range.


#16

In fact is 31 December 1890. That is the time frontier for the concept of “obsolete” ammunition and firearms. But that conception had a complex reading because also included, in the “obsolete” cartridges, all that had ceased industrial production more than 40 years ago, and the ones that where discriminated in a calibre list (quite incomplete in fact). Now the calibre list and prevision of obsolescent due to the old age or to the end of industrial production are banished by the new Law.
In fact, ammunition older than 31 December 1890 could be legal, but that is not clearly mentioned in this new legal addenda, because it only mentions “firearms”, not ammunition. Nevertheless, based on the principles and general rules of legal interpretation, in Portugal, ammunition older than 31 December 1890 must be included and therefore are legal.


#17

Break out the pre-1890 8mm Kropatschek and lets go hunt some Portuguese Ibex! Oh wait a minute… never-mind…


#18

Uhhhh… Purchase a slingshot then???

Gees I feel more privileged everyday having a vault full of “assault weapons”, and a .50 caliber rifle in my basement, I will never take that for granted. If any of you IAA Europeans ever come to Maine, I would be honored to let any of you take them for a try at my local shooting range.[/quote]

DK,I take it as a promise,especially for the 50 BMG rifle…


#19

Hey guys, don’t think that toy gun stuff is just Europe. Here in the Socialist Republik of Kalifornia, any toy gun that is all black or all silver is illegal. For my Makarov collection, I purchased a solid aluminum holster-maker’s form of a Russian Makarov. It is crude, oversized and made only for the wet molding of holsters (oversized so the holster will fit properly when the damp leather shrinks back down). Even a moron could tell it is not a real gun. To get it into California legally, the entire muzzle had to be painted distress orange. I don’t really care in this case, but it shows you the stupidty of the law.

Now, all the criminals have to do is paint the muzzles of their real, loaded guns bright orange, and everyone will think they are toys!

The scariest thing about our “leaders” in this country is not that they are stupid and ignorant, which they are, but rather that the think like little children. That is the most frightening aspect of government today.

By the way, did you see the tapes of the televised speech made by Abraham Lincoln when he was President in 1912?


#20

I can understand the unwillingness of a forum’s operators to let political speech run rampant. That said, nanny governments around the world are threatening every aspect of collecting anything that is not PC. We thought that it was absolutely silly to suggest that a government could regulate swords. It seems in Portugal even “conceptual” weapons are at risk. And before we americans feel too superior we have California.

I got into a bit of an argument on a mostly European oriented forum some time ago when I suggested that folks over there could learn from our experiences here, particularly in terms of harnessing a grass roots effort to stem oppressive legislation. The difficulty then was that members bought into the negative NRA press and equated anything that the NRA was involved with as tantamount to being complicit in genocide. I think that things have gotten worse over there since.

A key fact that has to be kept firmly in mind is that one can really not negotiate with people who think that they know better than the rest of us. They will take a position that you, in good conscience offer to them as a compromise requiring a quid pro quo, accept it and then demand more.

It comes down to how badly you want to have a hobby that an elite group of people deem as being inappropriate for the long term benefit of humanity.