AB Inc 9mm sub sonic


#1

Notes I have say these reboxed cartridges are part of a canceled Canadian law enforcement contract, circa 1989.
The company whose name is on the box, does however have “Made in USA” on the box.
Possibly only the box was made in USA ??

The h/s photo is NOT one of the remaining cartridges. My camera would not give me any decent photos of the case.
The photo is very much like the cartridges that remain in the box.


#2

The AB stands for American Ballistics. They produced a bunch of specialty ammo. As far as I know these were simply commercial ammunition in the US, although I am sure they were aiming for the LE market. I bought my box years ago. Same as yours. It is not impossible, of course, that they were originally made for Canada. I simply never heard that before.


#3

American Ballistics is still in business and in the Atlanta area. Now exclusive LE & military. I have the box documented, but not in my collection. The headstamp I have associated with the box is A B T 86. I met the owner of American Ballistics about 4 years ago and as far as I know, he loaded all the ammo he sold. He has used a variety of cases over the years, both US and foreign. I would be very surprised if these were loaded by IVI but more likely loaded by AB using IVI cases.

John, does your box have IVI cases in it?

Cheers,
Lew


#4

Lew - I have this box style for three different loadings - 147 grain JHP Subsonic, index AB5147; 115 FMJ Ball, Index AB5115; and 158 Grain FMJ Subsonic, Index AB5504. Note that the last one has an Index number that is not simply “5” followed by the bullet weight.

115 Grain FMJ" 92 9mm

147 Grain Subsonic: ABT 9MML

158 Grain Subsonic: Box received empty

I only have one round in each box, my style of keep them as you know, but I can tell you that they were not mixec brass, or I would have kept one of each headstamp in the box. I could be wrong, but I don’t recall ever seein any ABT round loaded in an IVA commercial case.

Interesting to hear that ABT is still in business. Do you know what their current headstamp(s) is (are)?

I seem to recall that many of their loads were in Winchester (W-W 9 mm LUGER) brass, but have not check my collection. Some of my rounds from this maker are at Tucson.


#5

Dear Lew,
my own ones have bluish bases (Silencer load) and have also ABT 86 headstamps.
All have the same hs…Box looks the same as shown in the Picture here above…

Cheers
Forensic

[quote=“Lew”]American Ballistics is still in business and in the Atlanta area. Now exclusive LE & military. I have the box documented, but not in my collection. The headstamp I have associated with the box is A B T 86. I met the owner of American Ballistics about 4 years ago and as far as I know, he loaded all the ammo he sold. He has used a variety of cases over the years, both US and foreign. I would be very surprised if these were loaded by IVI but more likely loaded by AB using IVI cases.

John, does your box have IVI cases in it?

Cheers,
Lew[/quote]


#6

John, since 2006 they are offering only 7.62x51 ball (linked) and M118 Long Range cartridges using US military brass (LC, for example). They dropped their 9 mm Mk 144 Mod 0 and HXC 93 grs loadings by 2003.


#7

John, based on your info, I strongly suspect the box pictured has been refilled. I have never seen or heard of an IVI load by AB. I have their early loads with headstamps: “F C 9MM LUGER”, “HP * 9mm *”, “7 070 1”, “S&W … 9MM …”, “W-W 9MM LUGER”. It appears to me that these headstamps were used early in his production. ABT was the code assigned for his military contracts. Many of his cases, like your “92 9mm” were made for him by by Canyon Cartridge and the thin letter style is typical of their production. There was an HP drawing of the ABT 85 headstamp seen in the Hirtenberg plant so it is likely this case was produced by HP. The A B T 86 cases were made by Olin.

When I visited with him the only thing he was producing was 7.62 NATO ball and what I saw was unheadstamped. It was reportedly a contract for Sniper ammunition for Egypt. That would have been in 2008 or 2009. He gave me a box of 9mm that was sitting around, but it was old production and he had not loaded 9mm for quite a few years.

Fede, thanks for your info.

Cheers,
Lew


#8

Lew,

When this box was acquired it was one of 10, and the dealer who was selling them had many more. The open boxes on his table where IVI headstamped and he was playing up the Canadian connection. Naturally the IVI h/s fit the tale. The boxes where crisp and did not appear to have been opened.

This all took place at a large gun show at the Armory in Manchester, NH

I called a friend who was there and purchased about 10 boxes himself ( none left) he remembers the IVI h/s and the Canadian
story. He is checking to see if he has any cases remaining that he may have reloaded.

If it turns out we both misremember(always possible) & if these boxes where refilled, someone refilled quite a few of them.

Questions:

Where did the “refiller” score so many empty AB boxes ?
Does the red plastic tray look right for AB’s 9mm packaging ?


#9

Scott, Thanks for the added info. Not the first time my “strongly suspect” has been wrong.

Hope John can answer the question on the insert. Most of the subsonic that AB loaded had the base colored, but the rounds from at least one of these boxes did not have base mark color though it had the ABT headstamp.

AB could have well used IVI cases for these rounds. The cases were available and used by others.

Cheers,
lew


#10

Lew - my three ABT boxes of the type covered on this thread all have styraform inserts, not plastic. Most of my Canadian boxes that take this type of insert are from Simunition (SNC). One of the STOPPER 9 boxes has a red plastic insert while the other one is styrafoam. The one with red plastic is filled with cartridges with Fiocchi headstamp. I have no other Canadian box with red plastic, but then, as I say, I have only really one commercial IVI box and it is missing the insert. My Dominion commercial box has a black plastic insert as do many of the SNC boxes.

I am only pointing this out trying to answer questions in advance. It is obvious that many different inserts have been used with Canadian Ammunition boxes, and red ones could easily be included in that.

Since neither of us have any ABT round with an IVI headstamp, perhaps someone could spare us a couple of rounds for collecting before it is all shot up? :-) Unfortunately, that is happening with much of the ammo appearing lately on the market - all gone to shooters before collectors even know it was there.


#11

Maybe someone more knowledgeable than I can shed light on it…but the typeface, font, wording, orientation, etc of the lettering on the first box pictured looks exactly like that on Winchester LE ammo boxes (white/orange boxes, pre-tan current Ranger stuff).

Same printer, association with Olin/Win…?


#12

Mwinter, I got the package. There is no question in my mind that this is American Ballistics production. I compared the IVI headstamped round to my hollow point that came in this style box and the two loads were identical, except my case was headstamped “A B T 86”.

Many Thanks!

Lew