ABINGDON Works .450 Peabody-Martini

When found, I believe the ABINGDON Works Co, Ltd 11.4 x 59R Turkish Peabody-Martini (aka .450 P-M) cartridges are usually loaded with a flat nose paper-patched lead bullet. The only place I am aware of these cartridges having come up for sale were in six of the Robert T Buttweiler auctions between 1986 and 1995. Five of these had the paper-patched flat nose lead bullet that was manufactured on contract for the Turks. The sixth had a paper-patched copper-tubed express bullet. I’ve included photos of one of these express bulleted examples, one of a handful I purchased 15 or so years ago. These appear to be original loads and not reloads. I assume the express bullet would identify this as a sporting load. Is anyone here aware of anything that would indicate that a ‘sporting’ load of this cartridge was marketed by ABINGDON, such as an original box or anything in print.

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Edited to delete two oversizeded photos

Hi Guy.

The round I have in my hand is exactly the same as the round nose lead bullets that you have (not shown).
Mine does not have the copper express tube.

I have just spent 2 days cataloging over 40 different NA&A co rounds and a similar number of Westley Richards rounds. Both companies used the same copper tube express bullet (or similar) that you show on your round.

Did they load a sporting bullet into a military case? Since they did not leave records, we will never know for sure. The reality of the time is that they might do that to finish a contract or to possibly supply some rounds to sportsmen. My bet is the first suggestion. They used bullets at hand.

While cataloging, I tried to research this round and could not find anything definitive as to who made the cases for Abington, but it was evident that it was either NA&A Co or W.R…

Sorry I am not much help, but my two cents worth.

Cheers,
Will.

I do not have an answer, but I have a question, two actually…

How is that cartridge different from the British No. 2 Musket and/or .500-.450, (as they look the same to my old eyes), and does anyone have the overall dimensions of the cartridge?
I was not able to find a drawing or specs, and I have several that look the same but are all slightly different at the shoulder height, that ai have not identified yet.
Thanks.

Oops, I answered part of my question from a 2008 post in IAA:

"

historian

May '08

From George Hoyem’s Vol 2 of History & Development of Small Arms Ammunition:
.450 (11.43 x 60R) Romanian Henry-Martini
bullet - .454"
rim - .665
base - .576
shoulder - .533
mouth - .481
case length - 2.35

.450 (11.43 x 59R) Turkish Peabody-Martini
bullet - .456"
rim - .668
base - .581
shoulder - .561
mouth - .474
case length - 2.32

In addition to the slightly shorter case, the Turkish cartridge has a much more pronounced shoulder than the Romanian."

Also, I found this, go about half way down:
http://www.oldammo.com/september09.htm

Badgerjack,
Thanks for pointing out that link on my web site; I had forgotten I had the load with the flat nose lead bullet. Here are photos of the two together:

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