Advice on shipping international


#1

Got a trade deal going and need to ship an empty/inert shell to Europe. Just the case, no projectile. Any advice? Thanks


#2

Rick–Just wrap it and ship it. I have sent Falcon over 400 rounds of Pull-Downs, including the bullets, plus about 100 rounds to a friend in Spain with no problems. Be sure to put a note inside the package that states that the cartridge is totally inert, including the primer. I have always written on the Customs Label “Inert Cartridges for Study” I have sent about 10 shipments in the last 2 years and not one of them was opened by Customs on their end or by Postal Officials on this end.


#3

Thanks Ron. Will do as you suggest. Wish us luck.


#4

It is not illegal to send to Italy but you must consider the stupidity of some customers.My last package was blocked and return to the sender.

I asked italian police if I made something illegal and they say “NO!”.There’s no italian or european law that prohibit sending inert ammunition and bullets


#5

[quote=“Pivi”]
I There’s no italian or european law that prohibit sending inert ammunition and bullets[/quote]

False !

  1. First there is a big difference between the police law in a country and the customs laws of the same country.
    For exemple in France I can own as many bayonnets I want, but no way to import them without a special license.
    Another exemple: I can have thousands of empty 9 para cases (because I have a licence) but I cannot import them, except if i have a special license.

In both cases the papers to fill are the same as if i want to import tanks or rockets and so on. (It is obvious it will be easier to import empty 9 para cases than rockets or tanks !!)

  1. Regarding dummies or inert or empty ctges (or cases or grenades, or big shells) now.
    For the French law (police and even worse for customs), the case of a ctge (grenade, shell aso) is treated as if it was the complete ctge (grenade, shell)

Therefore an empty ctge is like a live one.
The only way is to drill an hole in the case (and regarding grenades this is not enough)

  1. Even for the lowest category, empty shotshells cases for example, no way to import them without a special license.

  2. Conclusion : the european law can say whatever you want, the result is the country law (police and customs)

JP


#6

The italian NATIONAL law says that inert ammunition,cases and bullets can be imported and exported and the italian POSTAL law says the same thing.

In fact,the postal law here says that “you can’t send flammable or explosive devices or stuff” but cases and bullets are free. ( d.l. 272/2002 )

Actually in Italy the big law about weapons,national security etc order the rules for the importation,exportation and national shipping of weapons,ammunition etc.Custom and postal rules are based on this law. ( 110/75 and T.U.L.P.S.)

If you take a look at the italian postal and custom laws,every paragraph about dangerous stuff quote “272/2002”,110/75 and TULPS

When I wrote about “laws” I forgot to say that I meant national and postal laws.


#7

Yep,

Over here (in Holland) you can only legally own FIRED empty shells, charger clips and round lead or steel bullets. This also means that these are the only things that can safely and legally be mailed around without problems.

Our collectors are subjected to a permit-system. Importing is not difficult but it requires a special customs form to be filled in and shipped with the item. It’s usually a good idea to include a copy of the permit in the parcel as well.

Funnily enough, once you have a collector permit you can obtain, import and export the magazines for the ammunition you collect without problems.


#8

[quote=“Pivi”]
When I wrote about “laws” I forgot to say that I meant national and postal laws.[/quote]

Hi Pivi,
When I said “false” it is because the topic was about Europe.
The fact you have no problem in Italy means you are luckier than in France.

Regarding England, despite Ron says there is no problem to send inert (= empty cases with bullet) overthere, I am pretty sure it is not legal.
(I am talking when the guy has no license or import permit)
I remember once when I was in transit at the London airport, coming from the US and going to France.
I was obliged to drop boxes of 9 para bullets (just bullets) if I wanted to take my plane back to France. Just bullets !
And this despite the fact I had all the French permits.
They said I needed an import and export permit.

I don’t know from which country is Wlim.

JP


#9

JP–I think your problem with the 9mm bullets and going to England had more to do with riding an airplane than import of the bullets. It is LEGAL to send INERT rounds (empty case with oiled primer with bullet or drilled case and oiled primer) to England through the mail. What is prohibited are Tracer, Incendiary, Armor Piercing and Explosive bullets of any type. Hollow Point Pistol and Revolver bullets are also prohibited. The person receiving the cartridges does NOT need a special permit for the Inert rounds.


#10

I think a lot of the disagreement comes when we confuse shipping laws and regulations with possession laws and regulations.

For example : It may be illegal for a resident of CA to own an armour piercing cartridge or bullet but it is perfectly legal for me to send one to CA thru UPS or USPS. Neither of those shippers have laws regulating such things. AFAIK

Ray


#11

Hi Ron,

This means that English laws are better than in France.
But I would have confirmation by an english guy you can buy WITHOUT license 45 ACP or 9 mm or 223 or even 25 ACP or ACP empty cases in England.

Regarding Italy, I am wondering if Pivi can buy 45 ACP or 9 para empty cases also without license.

Because if it is not the case in these both countries, it means than inerted is not only an empty case with deactivated primer by oil, but WITH ONE HOLE in the case.

People in France think also if the ctge has no powder and a deactivated primer, it is inert and therefore to own without a license. And this is false. And some people got problems because of that.

I don’t know about Germany now, but I remember a fex years ago when not only the cases had to have one hole, but the bullet also.

JP


#12

JP,
I will be sending an assortment of cartridges to a collector in Italy, and would like to include a note in Italian that would say the following:

The cartridges in this package are inert. This has been accomplished by drilling the case, emptying the powder, and oiling the primer. They will be used for research and display purposes.

Can you help?


#13

Guy

Check your PMs. One is winging it’s way to you, as I speak.

Ray


#14

[quote=“Guy Hildebrand”]JP,
I will be sending an assortment of cartridges to a collector in Italy, and would like to include a note in Italian that would say the following:

The cartridges in this package are inert. This has been accomplished by drilling the case, emptying the powder, and oiling the primer. They will be used for research and display purposes.

Can you help?[/quote]

Guy,
I think Pivi can translate that better than me.

And I think it is the good thing to drill an hole in the case, because like that there is no problem (or less problems !)

I know a lot of Italian collectors who come to France to buy ctges. And it was funny, the first time I saw them, to see all these guys working on their ctges with an electrical drilling machine !

It is obvious and logical you are not allowed to import something you are not even allowed to buy or have inside the country. And this whatever the country.
Another true thing is : the fact of importing something is always more restrictive than to buy it inside the country.
JP


#15

Guy…Use Altavista Babelfish…just type in what you want to say in English and click the "English to Italian button, and voila, it’s done…I have sent cartridges to Italy and it works fine…


#16

Thanks all. Now, why did I expect JP to speak Italian? Duh!

Randy,
I tried Babelfish, but was disappointed with the results. Here’s what it translated to:

Le cartucce in questo pacchetto sono inerti. Ci


#17

As an English collector and shooter let me try to explain the position in the UK.

It is perfectly legal to own ANY component of a cartridge unless the component is controlled by law. Largely, this applies to expanding ammunition for which a special permit, based on need, is required. All components are freely available except for primers where a firearms certificate has to be shown. Purchase is not noted on the certificate but one must be allowed to possess the ammunition for the type of primer being bought.

Thus, I can buy small pistol primers if I have a permit to possess 0,357" ammunition but I cannot legally buy large pistol primers unless I have, for instance, a permit to possess .44 Magnum.

Whilst it is legal to own the components it is an offence to assemble those components into a viable cartridge unless you have a permit allowing you to own that calibre. It is the viable primer, as the most difficult item to make for oneself, that is the controlled item. It is legal to own an inerted cartridge where the powder has been dumped and the primer made safe unless the cartridge has a prohibited component such as an expanding bullet. It is not necessary to drill the case or for the cartridge to be otherwise obviously inerted. The onus would be upon the prosecuting authorities to prove possession of a forbidden item rather than on the owner of the article to prove his right to have the article in his possession.

There are specific places where it would be unwise to have even inerted ammunition on your person. These would include airports, embassies, government offices and specifically, schools. In other public places it would be prudent not to make a show of carrying ammunition. It is never easy trying to explain a collecting interest to the police or other official authorities.

Given the strictness or our laws regarding possession of firearms I always feel that we get off rather lightly when it comes to owning and collecting ammunition.

Peter


#18

iaaforum.org/forum2/viewtopic.ph … ht=customs


#19

Guy - actually, Babblefish did a very good job if you were translating English and it gave you the Italian that you report. I am not quite sure which language you started in.

Your translation of the Italian is very good until right towards the end, where you misinterpreted a couple of words:

“They will be used for the purposes of wxhibition and of research” is how that last line reads. For the first line your translation is perfect, except that it says “lubricating the primer” not “lubricating the injector.”


#20

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IF YOU WANT LEGAL ADVICE, CONSULT A QUALIFIED LAWYER, NOT THE IAA CARTRIDGE COLLECTORS’ FORUM. FOR GUIDANCE REGARDING SHIPPING AMMUNITON CONSULT THE CARRIER INVOLVED, AND IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO GET THEIR ANSWER IN WRITING!