Again Help.. Lines On Head Stamp

Has anybody ideas why this head stamp has lines on it, currently at 10 & 4 O’Clock on the picture. Not something I am familiar with! Didn’t spot it at first until I realised it was going through the “R” as well as between the W & G.

E%201-1

Thanks.
Mike.

According to some German collectors, these lines were reload markings used by Klaus Mayer KG of Arnsberg, West Germany who operated in the c1980-1985 period. They are known on vom Hoff cases (5.6x61, 7x66 & 7x75R) which were identified by stamping two long lines 180 degrees apart on the hs and aren’t always in the same position relative to the original headstamp markings.

@WBD

That’s interesting, first time I have heard of that one, thank you.

Mike.

Hi Brad,

I think that someone came to that conclusion after finding cartridges with these marks in Mayer boxes, but you can find them as well in boxes by other manufacturers (e.g., 5.6x61 by Hirtenberger Patronenfabrik). In any case, I don’t have any other explanation.

Regards,

Fede

That’s interesting Fede - I haven’t seen these come from HP or MAYER boxes but only as single items for sale. Perhaps Mayer or someone else used these boxes where available ? Perhaps HP produced the markings upon reloading instead?

One thing I have not been able to clarify for certain is how you identify between Norma and HP headstamps for vom Hofe production of 5.6x61, 7x66 & 7x75R. The IWK,Romey/Bertram and Horneber examples are marked but the Norma and HP appear the same with maybe slight letter spacing differences ??

Do you have any images of a HP box that contained 5.6x61 (or any other vom Hofe caliber) that were all marked with the 180 degree slashes ?

I also have never seen a MAYER (MAYER & SOHN or MAYER’S format) box that contained vom Hofe calibers - has anyone?

For what it’s worth, I have a NUPE Gehmann 7x66 with those marks. On closer examination, it has been necked up to 30-caliber.

Brad, I only have pictures of a HP 5.6x61 box showing its contents, but they also made loaded cartridges in 7x66 and 7x75R (I have pictures of boxes only). All three were announced in 1983, and it seems that it was a special run made exclusively for W. Gehmann, because I can’t find them listed in HP catalogs.


5%2C6%20x%2061%20(HP)

Now I’m starting to wonder if only HP cases have these marks.

Here is a picture of a Mayer box in 7x66 (unknown contents). By the way, I should clarify that, although often referenced as “Klaus Mayer”, his full name is Karl Klaus Mayer.
%20vom%20Hofe

Regards,

Fede

Thanks for this Fede - raises more questions but that’s great !

Mike, can you post a picture of the cartridge? It would help a lot knowing if this is a HP loading.

Fede, as requested this is what I have. As I stated in the other post, to my knowledge all of these are inert.

Thanks!

To this old tread:
Here are some pics of 5,6x61 SE vom Hofe…all ammo in this box have the radial lines in it AND the box flab gives the manufacturer as KLAUS MAYER Arnsberg. As the Postleitzahl is with 4 Digits, it must be before 1993–
I believe this box is from 1990. as the coding Shows 790303, alittl bit like the HP-Markings, the first Digit is not relevant…



and the headstamp:

I have several norma boxes from 7x66 ones…and the letterstyle in hs is exactly the same…but they do not contain this radial lines…
I can show boxes and hs of 7x66, if there is interest in…

Greetings and marry x-mas

Peter

Thanks for this Peter - it fairly well matches what I had heard re the radial lines and Mayer
“loadings”. Now you have shown that Mayer also had their own vom Hofe boxes marked “KLAUS MAYER”

Fede - Are you sure that the box shown above by you is actually an “HP” box - maybe it has “MAYER” on the fob also ?

This also affects the vom Hofe manufacturers timeline. What I had in my notes is the following:

"When IWK went out of business in 1972, Gehmann used Norma of Sweden to manufacture all four of the current Vom Hofe calibers at the time and this they continued to do till at least 1984 (some say the 1990’s ?). This was followed by production from Hirtenberger of Austria from 1984. From c1992, most Vom Hofe calibers were also manufactured by Wolfgang Romey probably for Gehmann as their hs still included his name but also the pentagon symbols for manufacturers identification. "

If your box date code is 1990, then it looks like Gehmann got MAYER to produce (reloaded ?) ammo after HP and before Romey. It also would mean that Mayer operated after the mid-late 1980’s until at least 1990, maybe until 1992 ?

Peter - any images and codes of vom Hofe boxes would be great ! I have began a montage of vom Hofe boxes by DWM, Norma, HP and Romey but there a re a few gaps and contradictions (as usual).

Thanks again

Hi Brad, I don’t have good pictures of a HP box at hand, but below you can see the different markings on the top panel:

5%2C6%20x%2061%20SE%20Paraboloid-Bleispitzgeschoss%205%20g%2C%2023%20mm%20-%204

I don’t think the code indicates “1990”; look at this HP box:
5%2C6%20x%2061%20SE%20Paraboloid-Bleispitzgeschoss%205%20g%2C%2023%20mm%20-%205

Peter, great box!

Regards,

Fede

About the HP-Lotnumbering I have asked today Mr Stossier (former Dev.Ingenieur at HP)…
As soon I have a reply, I will Report here…
Here are the pics from Norma-Boxes and there Headstamps.
The lettering is absolutly the same as on the 5.6…so I think, maybe Gehmann had ordered empty cases in bigger quantithies from Norma and they where than loaded from different companies, identifying a NOT NORMA-Load by the 2 segmented lines, as they Show up on HP AND Mayer loadings…
Romey doesnt had to mark their cases, as they usend the Rhombus Symbol in hs…cases made by Horneber…

Here now the norma boxes:

and more:

and headstamps very similar in lettering as 5,6:

Peter

Excellent Peter !

Here is an image to show that there is some variation in the 7x66 hs. For the left two, there are different gap sizes between “W.G” and “v.H” and the seven is a different shape - but overall very similar ! The one in the middle seems to be the same as your last box shown.

Whether these are different Norma bunters (?) or one is later HP production may be able to be determined by the contents of more VH boxes ?

image

HERE now the box and ammo from Hirtenberger make of 7x75R SE v.H. with 11 Gramm Stopring bullet.
Box from various sides:

and here the lotnumber:

and the sideprint with CIP-Proofdata from 1984, so it cannot be made before…

and finally the ammo and hs:

It does not have radial lines, so maybe an original product of HP…

Sincerely
Peter

and now the 5,6x61 R (rimmed Version) by IWK. No production code on the box…
Boxes and ammo:

have fun
Peter

ONE ADDENDUM:
As I restocked them, I couldnt resist and i looked on others in the package…
They have mixed letters in the hs, the usual K K and some others with M M,
whatever this MM menas

Thanks for these Peter - they are great !!

The DWM “KK” and “MM” hs 5.6x61R are quite commonly found mixed in IWK (ie post-WW2) boxes. I believe that DWM still had much stock leading up to WW2 and that these codes are pre WW2 date codes and still used from c1954 onwards when Gehmann began marketing them…

Peter, I had a close look at that 7x75R VH and it does appear to have those radial lines - nearly vertical through the “e” and “x” - definitely hard to see.