Aircraft ammunition and weapon systems


#1

I recently was given about 20 of the most comprehensive manuals I have ever seen on WW2 warbirds & other airplanes used in WW2. My Grandfather opened and ran a aviation hydraulic shop in Miami and serviced all kinds of military aircraft during the war. He is a true legend and the stories he has told me over the years are priceless. In any case, these manuals are between 3 and 8 inches thick and cover every bolt, screw, wire and weapon system. Their are even diagrams and photos of how to take apart almost any plane to be shipped on a multiple wood pallets. I took a few photos of some of the weapon diagrams from the B25 manual to post here. Their are literally thousands of pages like these from numerous planes and weapon systems. If their is an interest, I will post more. I just thought these were extremely fascinating manuals. At the time, they were all classified & restricted and were issued directly to my grandfather. Many of them even state that it is considered treason to show these documents to anyone.

These manual tell you how to load, sight, take apart ect, all kinds of weapon systems specific to each aircraft as well as every other item on the plane.

I wanted to edit my 1st post in this thread to add some great photos of some sweet Aircraft ammo. These pictures were origionaly posted by Mr. Tony Williams from his amazing collection latter in this very thread. I wanted to also add them to the begining of the thread to give new visiters a taste of what follows. Thanks so much for spicing things up Tony!!!


#2

SOME SUPER IMAGES !


#3

Thanks! These are the tip of thew iceburg! Some of these warbirds had numerous weapon systems and bombs all diagramed to the smallest detail. Some of the planes with ball turrets are really awesome! If anyone needs thier 30 MM nose cannon sighted in, let me know :-)


#4

Beautiful Manuals, with great information. However, I am inclined to believe that only sections dealing with the ammunition (and guns only when directly related to the ammunition sections also pictured), would be relevant to this Forum. Am I wrong? Just my opinion.


#5

John

No, you’re not wrong, considering the gist of this forum. And the fact that those of you who have worked so diligently to provide this arena are right to assume and assure an ammo only format.

But to those who say these "off topic’ discussions diminish the relevance of this forum might want to reconsider. I know, there are other areas on the web more relevant to these items, but I’m thinking most everyone that peruses this site has multiple interests and experiences. And to expand on the USE of the ammunitions can only help us all understand what we are collecting and why.

APFSDS has come along, to these pages, with some of the most arcane stuff I have ever seen. I submit he be afforded this “privelege” of posting without restriction, and anxiously await his next submission. It ain’t like he’s hawkin’ Viagra.

Just sayin’.

Rick


#6

I think that if you allow a member to go off topic then all members can do the same if they wish and that would detract from the fact that this is an “ammo” forum.

As interesting as this post is, ammo it ain’t.
Simon


#7

I appreciate the comments. I certainly wasn’t talking about restricting APFSDS, however. I think the parts that discuss ammo and the guns that used them, when both are discussed, is fine for this forum. The Torpedo Thread was great, too - torpedos, although out of the scope of most collections, are ammunition!
I printed that whole thread out and put it in a report cover! I do think, though, that one can go too far afield. I would not want to see pages devoted, for example, to the operation of the radio on a B-25, or the technical data for the landing gear of a B-29. This is an ammo forum. that doesn’t mean there is NO leeway, but we really should try to stay on topic. I believe, though, it should be a self-inmposed thing. You are right in your example - APFSDS has probably earned the right with his postings to discuss Budweiser Beer ads, if he wants. He is a great and valuable contributor to this Forum!!!


#8

I have collected and studied military manuals for 50 years and have not seen these. A gun is just an ammunition delivery system and an aircraft with guns is just a gun weapon platform. They are all 3 vital to the mission for which most military ammunition is designed. I would like to see all of the gun mounts and feed systems illustrated. Many ammunition collectors forget what these things are for and how they are delivered. Some of the better books show the guns and the ammunition. Current ones include Tony Williams’ various titles, Dean Thomas’ “Round ball to rimfire” and George Hoyem’s “History of ammunition” series. I have known many ammo collectors who knew very little about the guns for which their prized items were designed.

The torpedo post is the second most popular on the entire forum second only to the thread for fellows posting photos of their collection.

I do not see talking about variations of the .357 Mag. revolver to be needed here - and that can be done on NRA and other gun sites - BUT showing how these various weapons are mounted and fed gives a new appreciation for ammunition design. Design parameters are important to understand.


#9

Thanks for the kind words from every one. I will try to figure out how to deleat this thread when I get back from work. Those of you that want to receive addition photos of various weapons and ammo from these planes can send me thier e-mail and I will include you when I take more pics. I do not want to upset anyone here by potentialy going over bounce on topic.

Jason


#10

Please don’t do that, while manuals are outside of my area of interest, I still find your post(s) on this topic to be of great interest.


#11

APFSDS–As one of the “Forum Police” as CSAEOD likes to refer to us as, let me put my 2 cents worth in here. First, Do Not Delete the posting. It is interesting and alerts us to the existance of such manuals. Second, I agree with John Moss, that future posting should be closely related to ammunition and/or ammunition handling parts of the manuals. Exacting detail of the operation of the weapons systems (or electric, hydraulic, flight systems, etc.) would be outside the purpose of this forum.


#12

No worries! I have already been contacted by numerous members that requested I e-mail them future pics of ammunition, weapons ect from the manuals. I will refrain from posting any others on the forum as not to upset anyone.

Jason


#13

APFSDS - Pictures of the ammo, and guns as related to the ammo, from these manuals would not be “off topic” for this forum in my opinion. Neither would pictures of the feed systems for the ammo. I think all the concern was just over using a lot of Forum space for other airplane parts. That was my only concern. By the way, thanks again for all the great stuff you post. I am not a computer guy, so I print out all of it for my files. The torpedo thread is slowly becoming an interesting book on this ship-sinking ammunition. I wish I could take pictures like not only yours, but the ones others have sent to that thread. Great work!


#14

Thanks John. Other then stating the source of the photos, I only posted 1 picture that showed the plane with out a detail of a weapon. I was surprised it turned into such a fuss. Anyway, I took about 20 additional photos of these weapon systems and have been e-mailing them instead to the folks interested to aviod any “forum reality”. Mostly bomb, rocket and MG stuff with thier feed systems, hoist systems, and some ammo pics.

Jason


#15

TO BE BOTH PROFESSIONAL AND TECHNICAL; I REFER TO YOU HARD WORKING SPAM SNIPERS AS “FPP - FORUM POLITICIAL POLICE” AND NOT BECAUSE OF THE GOOD WORK WHICH YOU DO TRYING TO KEEP THE PORNO AND VIAGRA SPAM OUT OF OUR LIVES. I won’t explain that here because it will just be deleted. However, I will gladly explain to anyone who wants to contact me privately. PS - I would never say anything about the matter in private which I would not post here- BUT - it would be deleted and so the diversion.

I , VERY MUCH , APPRECIATE JOHN SPANGLER’S WORK IN ESTABLISHING AND MAINTAINING THE IAA SITE AND THE WORK OF THE FPP WHO TRY TO KEEP THE REALLY IRRELEVANT SPAM TRASH OUT.

I DO NOT APPRECIATE NOR SUPPORT “POLITICAL CORRECTNESS” IN ANY DISGUISE.


#16

I WANT TO SEE SOME INFO ABOUT THE BATHROOMS.


#17

I am a collector of .50cal ammunition as well as any other items that relate to it. So i found APFSDS manuals very interesting, I thank him for sharing them with us. It would be nice if more forum users could share photo’s pictures etc of their collections for everyone to share as it’s all information that makes us all the wiser. Some of this info could be lost forever if withheld by individuals who would rather keep it for themselves and take their knowledge to the grave with them, as well as their collection being sold for scrap and photo’s and paperwork burnt by family members who see ‘bullet collecting’ as a weird hobby and a waist of time.
Hopefully this is what this forum is about ‘sharing info’, ‘passing info on’ and helping each other out. APFSDS manuals still relates to ammo as we see how ammo is stored on aircraft ready for use etc etc. I don’t see this information as being harmful to the forum. It does make a change from the usual head stamp info, It all adds to our knowledge. If APFSDS manuals can give us that little bit extra info relating to ammo then and it helps you in your hobby, then its worth putting on the forum, rather than being stored for ever or hogged by individuals that could be shared with us all. I was surprised to see Torpedoes on this forum but its a type of ammunition for ships. As i am into .50cal ammo box collecting at the moment, should i not show or ask about ammo boxes, after all it’s not a cartridge.


#18

Thanks allot BMG.50! I will be sure to add you to my list. I will send you out some soon. I hope you don’t mind if I don’t sort out exclusive 50 cal stuff. I am getting allot of people e-mailing me for these historic refference photos and it is getting hard to keep up with specifics. I have about 20 cool ones taken from 2 of the at least 20 manuals. I wish I could send everyone copies of these manual on CD but thier are at least 15,000 pages (most not weapon based though).


#19

[quote=“BMG.50”]I am a collector of .50cal ammunition as well as any other items that relate to it. So i found APFSDS manuals very interesting, I thank him for sharing them with us. It would be nice if more forum users could share photo’s pictures etc of their collections for everyone to share as it’s all information that makes us all the wiser. Some of this info could be lost forever if withheld by individuals who would rather keep it for themselves and take their knowledge to the grave with them, as well as their collection being sold for scrap and photo’s and paperwork burnt by family members who see ‘bullet collecting’ as a weird hobby and a waist of time.
Hopefully this is what this forum is about ‘sharing info’, ‘passing info on’ and helping each other out. APFSDS manuals still relates to ammo as we see how ammo is stored on aircraft ready for use etc etc. I don’t see this information as being harmful to the forum. It does make a change from the usual head stamp info, It all adds to our knowledge. If APFSDS manuals can give us that little bit extra info relating to ammo then and it helps you in your hobby, then its worth putting on the forum, rather than being stored for ever or hogged by individuals that could be shared with us all. I was surprised to see Torpedoes on this forum but its a type of ammunition for ships. As i am into .50cal ammo box collecting at the moment, should i not show or ask about ammo boxes, after all it’s not a cartridge.[/quote]

Ammo boxes are very important and a lady from this area who collects ammo boxes has won display prizes at the IAA show in St. Louis.

LISA ZUMSTEIN knows more about ammo boxes than anyone who I ever met. Try her at lisazbox@aol.com if you can’t get answers on the forum.

A couple of months ago I saw some .50BMG boxes marked " for B52 only " WHY ?


#20

Thanks CSAEOD for that information i will give her a try.