American wilcats ID needed


#1

Since the wildcat world is a mess and there are a lot of variation of the same basic cartridge (Ray Meketa docet),I would like to know if I am right with my identification of these two cartridges:

Left: made from 223 rem brass,headstamped F C 223 REM.Same base& rim diam of the 223 rem round
bullet diam:6,70 mm (.264")
neck diam:7,30 mm
neck lenght approx:6,19 mm
case lenght:44,28 mm
OAL:64,46 mm
I think it is a 6,5 mm TCU

Right:made from 50 AE brass,headstamped SPEER 50 - AE.Same base & rim diam of the 50 AE round
bullet diam (just outside the neck):10,69 mm (.421")
neck diam (the very last portion):11,32 mm
neck lenght approx:6,64 mm
case lenght:32,61 mm
OAL:40,45 mm
I think it is a 440 Cor Bon


#2

Pivi,
I’ve measured my 6.5mm TCU and it’s the same as the example you have posted give or take the odd .001.

If the other rd isn’t a .440 Cor-Bon could it be the .44/50 AE ?

Added:
I have 3 sets of data for the .440 Cor-Bon and your rd matches.

Thanks to you I now know the rd I have listed as a .44/50 AE is the .440 Cor-Bon


#3

I believe that the 440 cor bon is a proprietary cartridge and formed cases are avaiable.However it is possible that this one was based on a wildcat called 44/50 AE.A lot of wildcats have been standardized to SAAMI or CIP and changed their names.

However I am not a wildcat expert


#4

Pivi - to date, I have not seen any .440 Cor-Bon round with the correct headstamp. All I have seen have a .50 AE headstamp. I have three samples of their prototype and five examples of the finalized, commercial product, including the box for one of those. Again, all have either an IMI , SPEER, or Starline .50 AE Headstamp. The first two of the prototype rounds I got had the Speer headstamp - a new, formed empty case and a dummy round with no primer. The loaded Prototype round in my collection has a IMI headstamp.

The prototypes are from the era c. 1996/1997. They have a higher shoulder (shorter neck) than do the production versions of .440 Cor-Bon. The shoulder starts at approximately 1.01" from the head. My production round for which I have a box was from lot number 2003, dated on the box 02/23/99. However, I received my first production rounds with Speer headstamp in 1997 and 1998, with IMI headstamp in 1999 (the one for which I have the box) and ones with Starline headstamps in 2001 and 2002, so that probably represents a fairly accurate sequence of use of the various makes of case.

The production version’s shoulder begins about 0.963" from the head (please accept these measurements as approximate. Due to a chronic tremor in my hands, it is very difficult for me to take extremely accurate measurements of these features on a cartridge case, where the case is not virtually clamped in the dial indicator).

There may be other versions of the .44/50 AE. To the best of my knowledge, all of mine are from Cor-Bon, and are not the product of any outside party.


#5

John,
so could my sample even be a factory loaded cartridge?
My round was bought in Switzerland approximately 10 years ago


#6

Pivi - yes, while I cannot guarantee it of course, your round could well be a Cor-Bon factory load. The bullet is very similar in shape to mine, rather trancated (troncoconico). I would have to see the tip of it to be sure, and the overall cartridge weight would be good as well. There is really no reason to believe it is not factory, though.


#7

Oh yes,I forgot to write that the bullet is an hollow point semijacketed one.
I don’t know its weight


#8

Pivi - HP is correct for some of these rounds. I don’t need the bullet weight - I was just going to compare the overall cartridge weight to mine to see if they were about the same. That is close enough to determine if the bullet is the same - that is, to see if Cor-Bon loaded that weight. I can determine the approximate bullet weight by the weight of the cartridge overall, by comparing it to a Cor-Bon load in my collection of a known bullet weight.