Ammo for French police and French customs


#1



jp


#2

The French Gov’t closed the last “military” factory some 5 years ago (Le Mans, “LM”), and now all users of Military ammo buy in from outside France…
The Armed Forces from the Dubai/Abu Dhabi (Uniteds Arab Emirates) Factory for 9mm and 5,56mm; FNB for 12,7mm, and 7,62mm, and DAG for the other Government services such as Customs and Gendarmerie.

A sad state of affairs for the once excellent French Ammo Industry, with numerous large Factories supplying half the world. Manurhin still makes ammo, but only for its own machinery customers, and I don’t know if SFM is still in existance, after it was absorbed by GIAT over 20 years ago…probably not.

Quel Dommage…

Regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#3

not only the army but also police, customs, gendarmerie buy their ammo from abroad (fiocchi, IMI, S&B, Dag and so on)

there is no more factory ammo (except a small compagny making 50 brg AP ctges and Manurhin for some rare canon shells) in France.

Not only no more ctge manufacturer but also no more gun or rifle maker.

Famas production for example is finished from a long time. They made 300 000 riffles in advance and it is all
Even for the new Famas, they are obliged to take some from this stock and put the new standard barrel.
jp


#4
  • @ jean-pierre: Do you know the real reason why this situation is today in France??? All the ammo to be imported from abroad and no gun manufacturers, this sounds crazy … Liviu 05/09/09

#5

Economical reasons, bad management, no commercial market due to gun laws, idealogical reasons like Europe, end of cold war, utopical views

It has been down since 1980, worse since 1990 (end of cold war), worse in 1995 (gun laws) and so on.

jp


#6


#7

Without going ito too much detail, what exactly are the gun laws in France currently? The reason I ask is because here in Britain our tough gun laws were often compared with the much more liberal laws in France as an example to prove that that gun control doesn’t work.

People used to question how you can ban something in Britain when it is freely available only a short ferry ride away in France.
Wasn’t it the case that .22 single shot pistols (for example) were completely unlicenced?


#8

Hi Vince!

Till 1995 it was rather free
a) shotguns (including pump ones) , 22 carbines (semi aut or manual), flobert rifles, hunting carbine (270, 30-30 aso), one shot 22 pistol, rifles (including assault rifles) (no full auto) in non military caliber, small shot revolvers : only ID
b) Hand guns, rifles in military calibers, full auto weapons : registrated licence

Now :
a) shotguns, hunting carbines, manual 22 carbines : valid hunting or shooting licence requested (if you stop hunting or don’t renew your licence next year for example you can’t keep it)
b) All the other ones request a registrated shooting licence
c) No more pump shotguns or full auto weapon

Therefore the only thing better than in GB is the fact if you have a registrated shooting license you can buy things .
But they must be in a safe (not in your cabinet), must be locked or taken apart on the way to the shooting range, and you need a lot of paperwork (renewing every 3 years, doctor certificate, safe, need to go often to the shooting range, aso). and you are limited about the numbers of weapons.
It is hard to get for a common guy (the first time you must wait one year for example);
Buying guns at the black market is ten time easier !

One point for our american friends now because they do not understand how lucky they are .
In France when they change laws it is not like in the US with pre-ban.
Imagine:
you buy legally a weapon.
they change the law one year after.
you can’t keep it.
they give you no money to bring it back
And you must pay either to demill it or to destroy it !!
Isn’t it good ??
It is because of that you find at the black market a lot of weapons (assault rifles, SMG, HMG, aso,all except handguns) very cheap and less expansive than demilled ones

About ctges, the law consider the ammution exactly as the weapon it is related.
therefore i can buy 9 para if I have a license for a 9 para pistol.

Regarding for example 22 single shot (or small shot revolver) I gave you the answer. You need exactly the same license for it as for a 45 Colt pistol, a 92 Beretta or a 357 revolver.
Which one are you going to buy ??
jp


#9
  • @ jean-pierre: I’m sorry to say this but today it smells like COMMUNISM “dans la belle France”. I hope it stays right there and won’t cross the Atlantic. Liviu 05/10/09

#10

Communism is not the right name I think, but you american people call deprivation of freedom like that, therefore I agree with you.

You have also the opposite, dictature, with the same lack of freedom. a society where all things and people are under control, where all the citizen (except a small deragotary class) look the same, act the same way and in fact are just numbers.
I think it is rather the right name.

"… won’t cross the Atlantic."
Already done, just take a look to California !!!
Not as bad as in France for guns (till now !) but worse for freedom and rights !!
And the bad thing is California is the model of many European governments.
Therefore keep an eye open my friend !!
JP


#11
  • @ jean-pierre: Since I was born in Romania and lived there over three decades before 1990, I do know too well what the communism is, what kind of life brings and how the rights of the ordinary people are trashed by the local government. I’m afraid that all the Europe may become soon a “red totalitarian” community with false hopes and dreams. God bless America! Liviu 05/10/09

#12

JP and Liviu–This is starting to turn into a Political discussion. I would prefer you continue it on the Political part of the Forum. Thank you.–ADMIN.


#13
  • @ Ron Merchant: I have nothing else to post at this topic. Liviu 05/10/09

#14

OK, let me help a bit. J-P, your cheese is still better!!!


#15

That ammo in the first pic would be this stuff I assume: http://www.ruag.com/ruag/binary?media=184619&open=true which on the page linking to it is identified as “9mm Luger Sintox Ball 124gr PoliceNationale” here: http://www.ruag.com/ruag/juice?pageID=147483


#16

I understand that if your army is a part of Nato your country must put all the guns and ammunition out to tender; maybe the police too but it’s easier to find bidders as no Nato specifications must be met.

Last batches of 9 mm Parabellum bought by the spanish army were from Winchester and Fiocchi !