Ammunition production in Persia [Iran]


#1

When did production of modern small arms ammunition [self contained cartridges] begin in Persia [Iran].
Terry.


#2

[quote=“Terry”]When did production of modern small arms ammunition [self contained cartridges] begin in Persia [Iran].
Terry.[/quote]
7.62 mm cartriges since 1937 in Teheran Arsenal. Later in Sultanabad (20 km from Teheran).


#3

Which 7.62mm cartridge??? Obviously not 7.62 NATO!


#4

Not possibly 7.92?


#5

Sorry. My fault. 7.92 mm


#6

Does anyone know what the headstamp was on the production in these two facilities???


#7

If somebody explain me how to place pics here I can provide some ones.


#8

Take photo, and get it on to your computer (that’s the hard part)
Make a account at www.photobucket.com
Upload your photo to your photobucket account
"copy and paste" the IMG code string of your photo in to your posting on the forum.


#9

Linnet,

If you will email the photos to me using the “email” button at the bottom of this posting, I will post them.

Cheers,

Lew


#10

It’s a pic of Iranian 7.92 mm cartriges from Russian battlefield. On the left made in 1941, probably in Arsenal, another made in 1943, probably in Sultanabad Plant. It’s a pic from the magazin “Weapon’s World”, Moscow, 2005, #12, from Boris Davydov’s article “PPSh made in Iran”.
The earliest Arsenal (?) stamp I saw was 1938. By the way Iranian year is not from January.


#11

Has anyone ever seen or heard of Iranian-made 7.62 Tokarev ammo to go with those Iranian-made PPSh SMG’s???


#12

I am adding pictures and info to my data base, Persia is still a mystery, but great headstamp photos posted by Linnet
Thanks all Terry.


#13

May be of some interest, found a reference to Britain building an Arsenal at Tabriz
for Persia [Iran] in the early 19th century [18??] that produced cannon and shot and later cartridges, so there may be very early Persian headstamps out there somewhere.
Terry.


#14

Well, it seems like there is little solid information on Iranian ammunition production. Ken Elks covered Iran in his book “Ammunition with Arabic Markings,” even though the cartridges’ markings are normally in Farsi, not Arabic. The alphabet is pretty much the same I am told. There are some number differences, primarily with the digits 4, 5 and 6.

Regarding the ammunition factory at Teheran, the factory probably opened just before or during WWII. Most of the 7.9 x 57mm ammo made earlier has been identified as contracts by companies like Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken A.-G., or Fabrique Nationale d’Armes de Guerre, of Belgium. Dating is tricky, as they used a calender based on the year A.D. 582 until about 1925, when they switched to one base on A.D. 621, In 1926, D.W.M. made a contract run of 9mm Parabellum and of 9mm Kurz for Iran. I have these cartridges and their boxes in my collection. I also have two different years for .45 A.C.P. but no box labels, and I have not yet had the headstamps interpreted. Unfortunately, I lost my Iranian neighbor, who moved away.

As late as 1950, some Iranian ammunition was still made on contract. There was a Belgian contract for 7.9 x 57mm in that year.

According to “Global Security.Org.” a factory making small arms and ammunition was established in 1939 at Parchin, and has been in operation since right before WWII. I do not know how to identify any small arms ammunition made by this establishment, however, if indeed, the information is correct.

Today, Iran operates ammunition production under the name of Ammunition Industries Group (AMIG) of the Iranian Defense Industries Organization (IDO). They make, among other things, 5.56 x 45mm, 9 x 19mm, .38, .40 (presumably .40 S&W), .45, 7.62 x 51, 7.62 x 39, 7.62 x 54R and 12.7mm (I don’t know if that is the Russian Round or the American .50BMG - it is not stated in my source - "Small Arms Review, Vol. 4 No. 11, August 2001, page 92).

The rifle guys are lucky - some of the Iranian ammo shows up for collectors in Kashnikov and NATO. Don’t know about the others. However, the only Iranian-connected 9mm Para I have is the DWM contract of the 1930s, and the same 9mm Kurz and a couple of .45s (one a fired case). I have never seen or even heard of a .40 pistol round with Iranian headstamp showing up.

This doesn’t answer much of anything, but it is all I have to offer unless I simply copied verbatim Ken Elks section on Iran. Some of that has me confused, to be honest, as he doesn’t really seem to know the meaning of a lot of the headstamp entries, nor do I. I hope it is of some little help and interest, anyway.

One other caution. Many of the “Iranian” 7.9 x 57 Mauser special purpose loads - blanks, dummies, etc., are not of Iranian manufacture or use. they were made on fired or left-over cases by the German firm of Huck after WWII.


#15

John, Thanks for the effort, I agree as all references I have checked are vague to say the least.
Terry.


#16

Some info from that Boris Davydov’s article about Iran.
Russia won war with Persia of 1826-1828 and got some cannons from Tabriz foundry during occupation of this city.
It was the main military unit in Persia since 1879 - Persian Kossak Brigade trained and leaded by Russian COs and NCOs. Obviously they used Russian rifles and ammo. Russia still supplied Persia by cartriges in 1920s.
Persia (Iran from 1935) used old Russian and British rifles untill 1930. Then they started to buy new small arms basicully in Czechoslovakia. Gun powder plant in Parchin was started in 1933 with support of Germans (2,1 tonn of powder per day). After 1934-35 in Teheran Arsenal they started not only small arms repair and making of cold steel but assembling of the rifles, machineguns and cannons, making hand grenades. New workshops were constructed in Arsenal in 1937 - rifle and ammo ones. They assembled 30-40 per day fron Czechoslovakian parts with local brand “Mauser-Shakhi”. They made only wooden parts locally. Ammo workshop produced hand grenades and up to 30000 cartriges per day.
Later in Arsenal German firm “Fritz Werner” started to produce the rifles. New cartridge plant was constructed in Sultanabad (50000 cartriges per day) and shell plant by Krupp. The construction of machinegun plant was started in Tehran vicinity by German and Czech firms.
After occupation of Iran by Soviet Union and GB Soviets bought old Maxim’s machineguns including German ones and Mauser rifles and 7,92 mm ammo. Later Iran produced rifles and cartriges for USSR. They got metal for rifles and primers for cartriges from Soviet Union. Soviets supported producing sub-machineguns PPSH in Iran.


#17

Thanks again, Linnet, very enlightening.
Terry.


#18

Don’t know if anybody has ever visited the site, but AMIG of DIOMIL has this site which is available in English, and which details the specs on all of their products including pistol and rifle cartridges: http://www.diomil.ir/en/amig.aspx The site only seems to function properly when viewed through Microsoft Internet Explorer, I had problems with Netscape and Firefox. On the left-hand bar you can click on the plus sign next to “small arms” and then on either Law Enforcement or Military, and then “show image” to see the pertinent stuff. I like the rotating banner at the top, which at one point says: “The best in the Middle East”. Haha, I guess since they don’t recognize Israel, they are ignoring IMI which would probably be superior in the Middle East.


#19

Interesting website indeed, thier line up is interesting. I would love to see one of thier 303 Brit headstamps.