Are these 7x57mm mauser rds.?


#1

Greetings!
I am a newbie to these forums, stumbled across them while researching this ammo & I am hoping someone is familiar with it. While perusing the site I was impressed with the knowledgeable folks here and the breadth of info I saw regarding other ammo, a very cool site!

I have a 1907 7x57mm Waffenfabrik/Oberndorf Mauser that I inherited and a friend of the family gave me 145 rds. of the ammunition pictured below. I started looking at the ammo and am doubtful it is 7x57…so, hesitant to shoot it ESPECIALLY after seeing the headstamps were dated in the 1950’s.(1950-52-53 & 59) If it is collectible then I would rather keep hold of it than shoot it obviously. Mainly worried it may be 7.92 or something else. The boxes it is in are from Fabric Nacional Toledo which from what I can gather is in Spain - Now the Empressa(sp) Ammo plant? Boxes are labeled 7mm but I can’t be 100% sure the ammo came in those boxes originally though, I have no reason to doubt the boxes aren’t the original for this ammo.
Anyways, here are some pics & any help is appreciated. If you expand the pics and copy/paste them to your desktop/folder you can then zoom in on the pics to get extra clarity.

So to clarify, my longwinded questions are:
1.) Is this 7mm ammo correct for the 7x57mm mauser?
2.) Is this ammo collectable and should I not dare shoot it…would that be blasphemy in the collector’s world? lol

Again, any help is greatly appreciated!


All of the ammo came on 5rd. strippers w/ a stamp on bottom that is a “T” inside an oval-ish circle.


#2

Yes, this is late production Spanish 7 x 57 Mauser from the Fábrica Nacional de Toledo (FNT). The bullet is streamlined and weighs 9,85 grams (153 grains).


#3

I agree they arePROBABLY 7 x 57 mm from the box labels. You show pictures of you taking measurements of the cartridge. Did I miss something? It would have been helpful cnfirmation if you had told us those measurements.

John Moss


#4

Sorry, I will go back and do that. If you copy/paste to desktop you can then expand them and zoom in on the measurements if so inclined. Otherwise, I will do it here in a little while when I get a chance. Thanks once again guys for all the input so far!


#5

Case length for both is a nominal 57mm
The 7mm rounds will have a nominal bullet diameter of .284
The 7.92/8mm rounds will have a nominal bullet diameter of .323


#6

case length: 2.235 +/-
bullet diameter: .282 at tip of caliper - .284 in middle of caliper
Overall Length brass/projectile:3.060

All of this sound right? In my Lyman Reloading book it states an overall length of 3.000 but that is a diagram that shows a rounded tip projectile versus a “spitzer” type like these. I assume they are using a soft-point hunting load/bullet for their example…


#7

Also, something else I forgot to ask; is this ammo most likely corrosive? boxer or berdan?


#8

The measurements you gave are consistent with the 7 x 57mm Mauser. The ammunition is likely corrosive, although I don’t know that for sure.

Best to always give measurements as you just did. I enlarge one of your pictures pretty far. Firstly, it is time-consuming to do so. Second, while the dial was clear, the slide was not, making the exercise futile.

I suggest when giving measurements for a cartridge requesting identification, you give the head (rim), base (portion of case just above the extractor groove), the case measured just below the shoulder, the neck diameter, and the diameter of the bullet measured as close to the case mouth as you can. Also the overall case length. To me, least important if cartridge OAL, although it doesn’t hurt to include that too.

The 7 x 57 mm Mauser, for example, is not the same rim and base as the 8 x 57 mm Mauser, as some think it is.

Also, it doesn’t hurt to give the full headstamp, even if pictured, just in case the picture isn’t clear, or doesn’t get posted, etc.

Just a suggestion for future inquiries. It will help the people on this Forum hel those who are adking the question. By the way, thanks for posting. Everyone who takes part on this Forum are always happy to help out anyway they can.

John Moss


#9

JohnMoss,
Thanks for the input & I apologize for the lack of protocol in my pic posting ;-) All good points to remember! As I stated before, I am a noob when it comes to knowledge of older ammo the headstamps on these are: FNT 1950 -52-53-59 respectively. Is this ammo abundant? I mean, should I shoot it or save it as a collectible?

Thanks again for everyone’s input!

Prophet out.


#10

All the measurements match the 7 x 57 mm Mauser cartridge.

This cartridge came with a variety of military bullets , both RN and spitzer . COTW gives an OAL of 3.06 for the military 7 x 57 cartridge loaded with a pointed FMJ bullet .


#11

John

The rim diameter is the same. The CIP base diameters differ by .003" All of that .003" can be swallowed up by manufacturing tolerances. SAAMI figures are a little different. But, I doubt if you’ll find military rifles or ammunition conforming to either CIP or SAAMI.

My point is, measurements of the rim and base are only one indication of what the cartridge is, and not the best one at that.

Ray


#12

Ray - I am surprised the measurements are that close. Seems to me I have tried 7 x 57s (I have a lovely Brazilian Mauser in that caliber) in 8mm clips and they would not go. Well, not matter. I agree that rim and base measurements aren’t the best for ID since so many rounds are similar or the same. Exactly why I mentioned the different measurements - the whole picture - one should post when asking ID. I think you could say that (not the best for ID) of any single measurement on a cartridge.

John Moss


#13

John and Ray –

John, you are right. 7x57 cartridges won’t fit in 7.92x57 chargers, although as Ray says the rim and base diameters are very close. The reason lies in their differing groove profiles; the rim of the 7x57 is getting on for 0.2mm thinner than that of the 7.92 round, and consequently the chamfer between the groove and the base is longer and it fouls the 7.92 charger’s cartridge-retaining flanges.

This is also a common problem with the several 7x57 M.93-type charger variants, which have been specified for a number of different rounds in a number of different rifles. For example, although DWM specified their M.93 charger for use with Mannlicher-Schoenauer 8x56, 9x56 and 9.5x57 rifles, these rounds also have a sufficiently different groove profile to foul the standard 7x57 charger and they, as do several other calibres, require chargers with flange dimensions specifically tailored for them.

This raises problems with identifying the original use of a M.93 Mauser-type charger, and often the only guide one has is to find out which rounds fit it the best!

John E