Are these Iraqi 303


#1

Are they Iraqi rounds ??
The bottom photo shows the V symbol facing the primer, where it is facing the rim and 0 symbol on the top round, any significance.
They have nickel jacketed ball projectiles.
Terry.


#2

Those symbols are numbers. The top right is a 6 (1956), the bottom right is a 7 (1957).


#3

Terry, yes they are Iraqui according to Ken Elks.

The symbol left of the triangle is the initial letter of the word army. The triangle meaning Irak.

The other symbols are the date, Christian, reading 1958 and 1957 from top to bottom of your pictures.


#4

Made in Iraq or made for Iraq?

AKMS


#5

I’ve always believed they were made in Iraq. I looked at the numbers again, and I’m sure of the 1956.


#6

Excerpt taken from Ken Elks’s work, dated April 1979. He makes no special mention of other Iraqui numbers.


#7

Thanks All,
Yes now that I know what I am looking for I checked another chart
and agree with 1956 and 1957.
Terry.


#8

Out of curiosity, the symbol you said represented the army is the [acpha] old arabic numeric symbol for 3,[ as oposed to the modern arabic as shown in your chart ] perhaps 3 signifies the army ammunition or the army cartridge factory?
Terry.


#9

Terry or Jon can anyone of you get me the numbers chart for Iraq? Since I cannot find my mistake.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_alphabet
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abjad_numerals


#10

You made no mistake, just a different interepretation of 2 symbols. The Arabic 8 (^) is actually an inverted Arabic 7 (V). The number 6 is like an L, rotated 180 degrees. The problem is that sometimes the top of the Arabic 6 is shown as a straight line and other times it curves like a hook.


#11

Thanks Jon, now I can see it, I was going crazy!

@Terry, I don’t think it means something about a number 3 factory. Just the letter.


#12

I agree with Fernando. That symbol is found both inside the triangle and outside the triangle on Iraqi ammunition. It is also found on Egyptian headstamps in conjunction with other letters. The triangle symbol is (was) used in Iraq as a military property mark and can be found on all sorts of military gear and equipment, not just SAA. The factory code “03” is found on Iraqi produced 7.62x39mm and 7.62x54r ammunition from the 1980’s and is represented by the standard Arabic numbers.

AKMS


#13

Terry–Not sure where you got the information that the character beside the triangle means the number 3. It is actually the first letter of the word “geesh” which means “army”. It can occur either inside the triangle or beside it.


#14

Ron, take a look at the wikipedia link for the Abjad numerals. It appears to be an ancient coding system.


#15

AKMS is right about the symbol for “Army” being found on other equipment. I have a Bulgarian Makarov holster, brought from Iraq, with that same symbol as well as the Iraqi National Crest and some symbols thought to be inspector’s letters or initials inside the lid of the holster.


#16

The triangle and arabic script letter that looks like an upside down “2” is the recognised Iraqi government property mark. On ammo headstamps it is separated into two characters, on weaponry it is superimposed(“2” inside triangle.) They signify “property of the iraqi Armed Forces”. I have Vz52 and Vz52/57, and have seen Vz58s with this property mark.

Ammo Factory, set up with British help in the late 1930s, for the Kingdom of Irak ( spelling at the time) by Greenwood and Bately, of England. Followed standard British manufacturing procedure for .303 Mark VII ammo.
How it survived or not the two gulf wars is not known…a .303 Factory (with Cordite Powder mill associated to it, and primer plant ios quite a difficult thing to hide…

regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.


#17

I have a chart showing the numbers 1 to 100 in both MODERN and ACPHA Arabic and the symbol beside the triangle is precisely the same symbol as shown as the old or ACPHA symbol for 3.

Why or how or its correlation to the Iraqi Army I do not know, maybe an Arabic Scholar might help.
Terry.


#18

The “upside-down 2” inside the triangle is also found on SAA headstamps. I have or have had 7.62x39mm and 7.62x54r cartridges with this exact combined symbol. I’m not sure how this correlates with the British set-up plant, but the ammunition factory using the “03” factory code was reportedly set-up by the Yugoslavians circa 1985 or so. I do not know if it survived the first Gulf War, as the last known headstamp from this producer was dated 1990.But it appears to have been re-built or resumed production, as at least one later date has surfaced on 7.62x39mm ammunition.

AKMS


#19

A system for assigning numeric values to individual letters,
ABJAD
The letter in question is Jiim or Jeem, [depending on where you look]also given a value of three!
Now that I have looked further than the end of my nose !!! I realise in the context of the headstamp it would be used as a letter and not in the context of mathematics as Arabs many hundreds of years ago did mixing both numbers and letters to calculate, with the letters used not necessarily coinciding with there position in the Alphabet.

The system was known as huruf al jumal "letters for calculating and sometimes as abjad which is just the first four letters 1==a, 2==b’ 3==j, 4==d.
No more Arabic research, as the feds will be knocking on my door if I look further, but I have seen enough to see my mistake in not realising there is more than one way to skin a cat!!!
Terry.