Does anybody happen to have images of the internals (or even a cutaway) of Ares made 9x19 duplex rounds? They exist in LRN and FMJ.
Have not heard of them!
EOD - me, neither. Hope someone gets some for one of European shows.
The Ares website shows nothing for it, but since they sell plenty of projectiles for loading could another loader have done some duplex loads and simply used some of the Ares colored bullets as the top projectile? This could lead to people referring to it as an “Ares duplex” possibly?
Matt, hard to say from here. But I assume a duplex load must have the “top” (visible) bullet designed to the duplex feature as anything else (regular bullet + duplex) should become too heavy or?
Aside from EOD’s correction assumption regarding the need for special projectiles for multi-bullet loads, it should be pointed out that ARES has likely loaded ammo as well, as they have their own headstamp, at least on 9 x 19 mm, and despite reports when they first appeared on the scene that they had only a very small quantity of cases with their ARES headstamp, that can’t be true. In my mediocre collection alone I must have 15 or so 9 mm round with the ARES headstamp.
That doesn’t mean the necessarily have to have loaded the aforementioned duplex loads, for which it is well possible that they have made special bullets for such loadings, perhaps only for a specific commercial loader customer.
EOD - You must have found out about these ARES loads somewhere. Was any total cartridge weight, or even bullet weight mentioned. I have a lot of ARES loads, and I am sure that Lew probably has many more than I do. If the cartridge has a significant difference in overall weight, which we could figure out pretty close if we knew the bullet(s) weight, perhaps one of us has one without even knowning it. I only have a couple of ARES boxes to go with lots of different rounds, so in absence of knowing how to tell the difference, perhaps weighing them might reveal something.
John, yes, a friend from Slovakia told me. Now I been told that the lead bulleted version is using a .380 Short bullet (500 EA made) and a 8.4mm lead ball underneath. The FMJ is using a regular FMJ bullet (do not know the weight) and also a 8.4mm lead ball (ca. 100 EA made). Performance is said to be good.
I shall get the weights for the complete cartridges soon.
So it took me only about a half year to get the details…
Recently I was allowed to examine these duplex rounds and the little info I had before got confirmed.
Here an image of the duplex loads.
Loaded round: 15.58-15.65 gram
Projectile weight total: 11.43 gram
White lead bullet (9x19 Para type): 7.43 gram
Ball: 4.0 gram
Black and dark grey
Loaded round: 14.37-14.44 gram
Projectile weight total: 10.22 gram
Black lead bullet (9x17 Kurz type): 6.19 gram
Ball: 4.02 gram
As can be seen the lead ball got heavily compressed and was press fit into the case where it enlarged it’s diameter to 8.9mm. One side (the one towards the top projectile) got flattened and the side facing the propellant got the propellant grains impressed while the sides became somewhat cylindrical as they contacted the case wall on the inside.
As can be seen the projectiles were seated with a quite high force what left some seating tool marks on the top projectiles which were obviously a bit different. The white projectile has a ring shaped impression in the top section while the black and grey ones have a conically flattened section. These marks should make the duplex loads esy to identify without weighing the rounds.
Unfortunately there is still no info on the FMJ duplex variant which likely is unspectacular like the ones above but data and images would be good to have.
Alex, very interesting, thank you very much for sharing. Regards, Fede.
Due to the last posing I got a small follow up on the subject and was told that the duplex loads were made due to a customer requirement and are no product offered for regular sale.