Argentine brown tip 7.62x51 NATO


#1

I have two brown tipped 7.62x51 NATO ctg made by the Argentine Firm
FM"FLB" which I can’t identifie them

  • FM"FLB" 62 7.62 at 12 8 4 o’clock cncs jacket
  • FM"FLB" 72 7.62 at 12 8 4 o’clock gilding metal jacked
    Have they a different function I know the color code’s in Argentine changed in second part of the sixties
    tracer first bleu later red
    Armour piercing first red later black;
    Any Idee’s?
    Wishes Jan.

#2

I only am certain on tip colors for auto pistol ammunition, but since 1958, a brown tip on any auto pistol cartridge has identified it as a high pressure test (proof) cartridge, Prior to that, a red tip indicated a proof loading. Tip colors on pistol ammunition changed in 1978, and then there were changes c. 1971 as well.


#3

I have a fairly late date Argentine 7.65 Mauser round with a brown tip. I was told it was a Match loading.


#4

my round F.M. “F.L.B.” - 71 7.62…is noted as a “special match”

sorry…don’t know more

Pepper


#5

jan,
Im not an expert on military ammo so I do not know what it means but I will do some search.
Do you need information about the meaning of FM"FLB"?
If not I can help.
I will let you know ASAP.
Thanks
Martin


#6

Martin - if you could provide us with a current list of what the colored tips mean on Argentine ammunition it would be a great project done for all of us. I am up on the auto pistol tip colors, and have old information on the others, but they don’t include things like “special match” or “proof” loads, since the manual includes only tactical ammunition.

I think most of us are up on the headstamp meanings - FM FLB = Fabricaciones Militares “Fray Louis Beltran” - The name of that particular FM plant.


#7

John,
I will try to find some information abut colored tips code but Im not an expert in military ammo. I will post some codes from the AACAM (argentine association of collection


#8

Hi

here is a box of 45 high pressure from Argentina.
The box is the same a normal ball ammunition, but is stamped:

cartuchos de tormento

the ammo has a brown tip and headstamp is

  • F.M. “S L” -

58 - 11.25

No primer color.

cheers
Ren


#9

Ren


#10

Thanks so far for the reply, I think I can accept that the early dated brown tip is a proof round, but I know that the proof rounds are now identified by a green tip.
Is there someone who can confirm the identification of Pepper of the later dated round?
Thanks you all, wishes Jan.


#11

I have been digging through my files and books for the better part of this afternoon trying to find more on the Argentine color tipes. I find that in the book by Peter Labbett, “military Small Arms ammunition of the World, 1945-1980,” he shows that the tip color codes changed in Argentina in 1978. He identifies the following:

Tracer: Red tip
Incendiary: Blue tip
Armor-Piercing: Black tip
Obervation: Yellow tip
APT: Red over black tip
API: Silver tip
APIT: Silver over red tip
Match ammunition: Brown tip

This may be the source of the information that a brown tip is Match. However, it would seem that this is only valid for cartridges dated 1978 or after (of course, you would probably have to allow for 1977 - sometimes cases are not immediately loaded after rpoduction of them).

In my general file on the country of Argentina (ammunition) I found a Spanish language hand-typed document, unfortunately undated, that cnfirms Peter Labbett’s identification. It identifies 7.62 x 51 as “Cartucho calibre 7.62 x 51 NATO Bala para concurso “EC”. “Concurso” is a Spanish word that means, among other things, a contest or competition. I don’t know the significance of the initials “EC” as regards matches or match ammunition. If the “Special Match” term that has been used on this Forum is something official, then one could conclude that the “EC” represents “Especial Concurso” which could be translated to English as “Special Match.” The only problem is that in normal Spanish language form, I would think that it would, in that case, be “CE” for Concurso Especial.” I am certainly not fluent in all the little ins and outs of the Spanish language, however.

The entry reads as follows, for those interested in all the information:

Vainas de lat


#12

John,
You are right about the EC cartridge.
I will try to post a FM catalog around 1979 tomorrow.
For this post:
"Bala para Concurso “EC”: cartuchos cargados para obtener mayor precisi


#13

Martin - thanks for the Spanish Lesson. I wasn’t sure. I know the adjective usually follows the noun, but I wasn’t sure if that was a hard rule. In Italian, it is not quite so strict. The adjective usually follows the noun, but you hear it the other way in many cases, as well.

Thanks for the additional information. the document I had says almost the identical thing, but did not tell the bullet weight. Mine is not a catalog - it is a seven-page, single-spaced, hand-typed document in Spanish, titled "Resumen de la Cartucheria Fabrica por La Direccion General de Fabricaciones Militares de La Republica Argentina (no need for translation - I can read all of that “sin problema”, and frankly, anyone literate in any Latin-based language, including English, can as well, simply because of the words in that particular title).

The strange thing is that I seem to have the original copy, and don’t know where I got it. I am sure it came from one of our friends in the AACAM, but many years ago. Perhaps from Batistessa, or even Jose Rubio, in Uruguay.

Unfortunately, all of my documentation on Argentine military ammo is from the 1970s or earlier. My later catalogs show only the commercial line, generally of just the pistol and revolver ammunition.


#14

John,
I took the information from another “Resumen” typed on the 57


#15

As Martin said the oldest one has a green p.a. te later a dark coulored (brown?)
I overlooked but Scranton say also 1978 as date of change the coulors. I thought earlyer because I have a red tipped tracer with hst FLB - 7.62x51 - 73. Bullet is non magnetic, gm jacked primer four stab crimped with red p.a.
I identifie the 71 brown tipped round as a special match round, “the box come later :-)” . A painted tip for a match round is strange, but there are others, Isra


#16

Jan - could well be that they are match rounds. I have found that there was a color change about 1958 and another about 1972. Those were for auto pistol rounds, and as most know, I am pretty ignorant on subjects other than auto pistol ammunition.

For auto pistol colors, a tracer was a green tip until 1957, then from 1958 until 1971, a blue tip, and then from 1972 on, a red tip. I had samples of all these in 9mm until I had to give them up some years ago due to changes in the law here. Fortunately, I still have my catalog information on them. So, your red-tipped NATO round fits right into that change.

Some auto pistol proof loads were identified not by a tip color, but by deep indentations pressed into the sides of the bullet. There are usually two of them opposing at 180


#17

The CNCS cartridge dated 1962 is a Proof round. The GM cartridge dated 1972 is the Match type “EC” = Especial para Concurso. The date for changes in color tips at least in long arms cartridges was along mid-1971.
Best Regards.