Au crocodile shotshells


#1

Hi,
Yesterday I received these cases.
To me they look Italian, perhaps fiocchi?
What means the T in the headstamp?

Can anybody give me some information about these?
Regards rené


#2

More likely they are French; “au crocodile” translates into English as " at the crocodile"…ie, the shell is directed at crocs.
Any idea on the shot type? These look like rolled crimp shells…so the shot size is usually on the top wad.

For crocs…even small ones, shot like AAA or OO/SG buckshot is the only suitable load…for big ones, OO really close up as their armored hide over the head will deflect lead shot…rifle bullets preferred.

T HEADSTAMP ??? The only idea I have is Thun in Switzerland…hardly croc. country…any French shotshell loaders using T headstamp?

Doc AV


#3

Hi Doc Av,
Indeed it is French, but the case looks identical to the fiocchi ‘dog’ cases.
I mean the 36 ga!

I have no idea if people ever used shotshells for hunting crocs.
Maybe someone else has an idea.

Regards rené


#4

“I mean the 36 ga!”

O.K., so I am confused…

Is the 36 gauge, (with a bore diameter of .506"?), the same as the .410?
In the U.S., the .410 is actually a caliber, not a bore gauge.

Even if it was loaded with a slug, I do not see it having enough power to kill a croc- or an alligator- unless you could get the muzzle against the very small soft spot, (the size of a golf ball on a croc, and a quarter on a 'gator), at the back of the brain pan, a risky endeavour at best.


#5

Hi,
About the power that is necessary to kill a crocodile, I have no idea!
They are seldom encountered in the Netherlands ;-)
There has been discussions before about
36 ga / 12mm / .410
I know there are differences, but these days it seems they are randomly used.
With a little searching you should find the topic that goes about it.

Regards rené


#6

René, in Argentina and Uruguay this was a well known brand used for general merchandise that was owned by Dellazoppa and by Trabucati & Co. as early as 1882. However, I have never seen examples with this “T” headstamp in my country.

The illustration of the crocodile may vary a lot depending on the item, origin, date, &c. Below you can see two examples.

1

Regards,

Fede


#7

Thank you very much for that information!

I got these from a friend in Uruguay, perhaps he will be reading this soon and knows something about these.

Regards rené


#8

René, I hope someone in Uruguay has more information. I wondered if the “T” may stand for “Trabucati”, but I couldn’t find a way to confirm this.


#9

Very interesting!

I had to contact with old collectors here at Uruguay to get more information. Unfortunately, there is no documents that can support that T is from Trabucati but it looks to be the most feasible explanation.
IMG_5807

In this picture it looks the same T fount (maybe just a coincidence):

image image

image

Trabucati was a general hardware store at Montevideo, Uruguay. Founded in 1840 and was open up to the 1970’. As Federico mentioned and I did not know about that, Dellazoppa and by Trabucati & Co were the same company while Dellazoppa was located in Buenos Aires, Trabucati was located in Montevideo.

image

image

Doing some search during these days I have found that Trabucati import from France (possible SFM) shotshells with the Cocodile brand.

It looks like that they have also imported and sell at Montevideo the shotshells with a “Martillo” (Hammer) brand. This Martillo units have an Italian headstamp. This was very common at Uruguay, some gun stores or hardware stores import shotshells and add this logo on the paper.

image image

If someone have more information on this Martillo please share.

I will double check all this information and in case I come across with more information I will post it.

Best regards
Daniel


#10

Hi Daniel,

Very interesting information.

Thank you very much.

regards rené


#11

Hi René and Daniel, today I took some pictures of two 16 ga. Argentine “Au Crocodile” shotshells made by Orbea for Dellazoppa. Red is smokeless and tan is black powder.





Later I will post information about those nice “Martillo” brand shells.

Saludos,

Fede


#12

HI Fede,

Thanks for showing these two, which I still need to find one day.
Am I correct to say that these were made for Dellazoppa?

Look forward to what you can say about the Martillo.

regards rené