Australian 30x113B DEFA ID

Hello everyone,

Years ago I got this nice Australian 30x113b DEFA cartridge and posted it on the BOCN. One member said it looked Ike a HE or HEI type projectile, and after that I never really researched it more.

Recently I have been trying to find out for sure what type of projectile this is. I cannot find any good quality photos of real Aussie HE cartridges to cross reference so hopefully someone here can ID it.

Both the case and projectile are new and unloaded with the case headstamp being “30-550-DEFA 8 MF 82 FR”. The projectile base being marked similarity with “MF FR 8 82”. The projectile is completely hollow, a nice dark-red colour and a solid aluminum dummy fuze. I do know it was produced at the Footscray ammunition plant in Victoria, Australia in August of 1982.

Any ideas?

Thanks! :grin:

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In my view HE or TP but never finished.

The reason I brought it back up was I found another Aussie collector who has an identical cartridge and he thought it was a TP cartridge.

Red seems like a strange colour for a TP projectile so I always assumed some type of HE. I have seen actual Australian 30x113 TP cartridges and they are blue with white lettering as well.

Although Australia isn’t part of NATO I would assume they still use similar colour codes.

What does the “FR” in the headstamp mean?

I believe (to be corrected) that the FR indicates that the component is of French design. The cart. is unmistakably Australian made with MF 82 in the H/S. The colour of the projectile is common here in Australia & I don’t remember ever seeing one that was finished crimped in a cart with that colour. I believe these to be unfinished/unpainted projectiles.
Regards Ozzi.

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Not correct, MF is for Munitions Footscray, which is the factory the item was made in, 82 is the year of manufacture. Ozzi.

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Oh perfect! Thank you for the correction!

By chance, have you ever seen a proper Australian HE cartridge? I wonder if the fuze of a DEFA HE projectile would even fit this projectile. Or if the TP cartridges use a threaded nose plug, or press fit.

Could be factory display rounds made from TP cartridges?

The blue prac. & inert filled proj. are the most common here in Australia, the true inert HE projectiles are extremely rare here (I guess none wanted to deactivate them for us collectors)! I don’t know if the service fuze will fit the inert proj.

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Good to know!

I have seen a few of the Aussie blue TP projectiles and they look identical to French ones with different markings. Maybe Australia used French HE projectiles too?

I will try and find some photos of French HE projectiles and compare.

Wondered if the FR was France, but thought I should ask. Thanks

So it would seem the “FP” on the bullet base also relates to France design / manufacture or?

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It is not FP, it is FR that has been mis-stamped with the leg of the R missing.

Peter, I am not sure I am convinced that “FR” stands for France/French but happy to go along with it til proven otherwise. Perhaps Ron Hardy can offer an opinion?

I am away from my collection at present but can post an image of an (inert) operational round in due course. As Peter stated the HE rounds are scarce here.
The 30mm DEFA cannon was used in the Mirage III0 jet fighter (made under licence in Australia) from the mid 60’s and still in service until around 1985 when replaced by the FA 18.

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PeterC, happy to be corrected, cheers Mate.

Thanks, Now that I look close I can see the very faint leg of an R

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Here is the 30mm DEFA Australian production ‘operational’ round. I remembered upon seeing it that this was an instructional dummy. Most likely originally a blue painted ‘TP’ projectile repainted to imitate HE.

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A late reply but I had no computer for 9 weeks so busy catching up on forum items.
Yes this is a TP 2102 DEFA that is only undercoated and base marked in black.
The projectile then gets filled with a pinkish inert filler, blue painted and stencilled in white print.
The projectile date can be a earlier year to the filled date.
The dummy fuzes are nearly impossible to unscrew without severe damage. Too tight.
I have mis-matched the copper banded TP date of case and projectile to show the best case print with a TP projectile that shows the red undercoat where the paint has flaked off.

I believe the FR means French ammunition made under manufacturing licence.
Australian made TP 2102 and HEI-AG 6522? for air-to-ground use and had a primer extension tube to transfer the flame to the centre of the propellant load. AG tended to shift the powder forward when the jet dived and the emphasis was on fragmentation rather than blast effect.

There is next to no info on Australian ammo other than what collectors have found.
I have two cases for the AG ammunition. One looks like an experimental lot number.

The first date I have found is 30-550-DEFA 6 MF 70 FR. Highest lot is 22 MF 70.
Later years seldom had lot numbers greater than 12. Always looking for missing dates.

I note TP 2102 with copper bands and also steel de-coppering rounds.
See the container held 28 copper and 2 steel belted rounds.

I have a HE empty fuze and it fits the TP projectiles. I have never seen a HEI Australian projectile or Dummy rounds. It is hard enough to find a nice fired case with load data on the side.
I collect all lot numbers and H/S styles and hope to finish an article for ACCA Journal some day.


That’s great info Ron, just to clarify are you talking about my cartridge or one posted later?

I’d also be interested in seeing the empty HE fuze you have, I’ve been looking for photos of one but couldn’t find any. Love the ammo can too!

Yes I was expanding on your post Spaceinvader.
Here is a fuze comparison photo.

Side view of DEFA HE, DEFA plug 2102 and a British ADEN HEI fuzes.
Base view of the DEFA fuzes.

I guess the HE fuze was Australian made as it came with other experimental items.
It has two key holes. Note the different lengths and longer ADEN fuze.

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Just wanted to make sure, that’s finally an ID for this cartridge after having it for… 8+ years I believe? So thank you very much!

The fuzes are quite interesting too, never seen any, even in old photos. I have a British ADEN HE and always wondered if the fuzes were similar or not.

Thank you very much for the great info! :grin:

Ron , I lived next to RAAF Williamtown firing range and picked a a lot of practice projectiles and acquired quite a few Cases and practice rounds ! I was told the brass ADEN cases were used in the Sabre Jet and the steel DEFA cases were used in the French Mirage jet !Never really researched it as my mates in the RAAF that I occasionally shot with on the RAAF pistol range were the ones that gave me the info and one was an armorer ! I lived there when the RAAF used the FIII with 20mm ammo some time after the used of 30 DEFA .

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