Australian Ordnance Collection Site (WWI & WW2)

http://ordnanceandmilitaria.com/

This is a collector’s site with a large number of nice photos. Most of his collection is large caliber ordnance, but there are some pages with SAA as well. He collects primarily from WWI through WW2. There are several very nice cross-sections of projectiles and fuzes (take a look at the sectioned 90mm recoilless HEAT and HE near the bottom of this page: http://ordnanceandmilitaria.com/88-to-100mm-ammo). He also has mines, grenades and a nice page of machinegun belts and magazines.

I found that the text doesn’t always format correctly on my screen and is hidden behind the photos, even though I am using Google Chrome as he recommends. But I was able in most cases to triple-click the text (which should select the entire caption), then copy and paste it into a text editor to read the descriptions. He also cautions that his descriptions are probably not 100% correct and welcomes corrections.

I don’t know if this collector is a member of the IAA (no mention that I could find). He is also starting to sell off his collection but limits sales mainly to Australian collectors (see link on his site).

Enjoy!

Larry, thank you for the link!
I am officially impressed!
I saw there some items I never saw before including some German ones I know to exist but never saw in reality or in collections.

Some items are not correctly identified.
Wish the photos were better and larger.

Seeing all the non-Australian material I assume it must have been a nightmare to get that to down under. And even that must have been many years ago as I think today such an attempt would be on the 8pm news.

Alex, I’m glad you found it useful. I found this site when I was searching for the arsenal mark you found on the Chinese 75mm projectile. Of course, I was unable to find that mark anywhere else.

The owner states that 95% of his collection was gotten before 1990, so things must have been easier back then.

I wish I was visiting Australia so I could try to purchase a few of his projectiles!

He might appreciate any feedback you can give on corrections if you are so inclined.

Since the owner is selling off his collection I may contact him to see if he might be interested in providing his photo record to the IAA. I was unable to save any of the images from his site, perhaps due to the software he uses (right-click does not give a “save image” option).

Larry, I wonder if you would be able to get it out of Australia first and secondly if you could get it into the US.
Here in Germany for example both would be impossible with our governing fascists.
Thanks God our legistation is preventing arms supply to terrorists this way. Oh, wait! Isn’t it our govts who give shiploads of arms to terrorists? Because terrorists are good when they are fighting another govt. our govts do not agree with! Dogooders at work!
Seems I got it all wrong in my little, twisted, paranoid conspiracy mind!

No desire to nurse anything on that site.

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That means the maker did not want us to download the images.
But just use Mozilla, do the “right klick” and click on “save website”.
And you’ll het 2 fles then, one html and one folder with ALL images of the page you had opened, means whole sections like “grenades” or “mines” or so.

From his buy/sell/trade page:

" Till recently I have only sold to collectors in Australia, but am now selling to overseas collectors as well, as long as I able to successfully obtain an export permit from the Australian Department of Defence."

A Homeland Security (Customs) export permit is required to export ordnance items from Australia, nothing to do with Dept. of Defence. Very little of what Mark sells would qualify for a Customs export permit - basically only cartridge cases, solid AP shells, 1/4 sectioned items and rusty relic junk items.

Graeme, yes it does have something to do with DoD, as these items & any item of ammunition whether inert or not are covered by their “Strategic goods List” will need approval from DoD before you go to Homeland Security (Customs) for the export permit!

OK Peter, I didn’t know that as I’ve never exported anything. What is the application/approval process to get approval from the Dept. of Defence?

I’ve emailed Mark about his site and his auction sales and he confirmed that he has recently shipped just a few pieces to other countries, including the US.

I also found this thread from a few years ago, though I don’t know if this has changed since then:

Perhaps Mark will join the IAA forum. He was under the impression that it is mainly SAA, so I told him that there are a number of larger caliber collectors on the site as well.

Just came across this thread about “importing” inert ordnance into the US. Sounds like there is a risk, even though packages probably still get through unnoticed.

Does anyone know if there is any new info on whether the ATF considers collector purchases to be “importing” of prohibited ammo? If not, it sounds like it would be safer to stick with domestic purchases.

Decades ago I exported and imported quite a lot of collectors ammo. Even then I found it was most important to KNOW the rules and be able to QUOTE them. Many times I had to argue my case but always won in the end because I could quote the relevant terms and item numbers. It helped after the first lot because I could use that as a precedent and ask the question “Was the previous officer wrong?”. That was usually the end of the matter.
Of course it would be much more difficult now, but I think the approach is still valid.

I’ll have to remember that. It will probably be more helpful that reverting to “do you know who I am?”, which never seems to work anywhere near as good as it does in the movies.

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Please, firstly remember that both Australia & US have different import export laws, don’t get their respective laws mixed up in these conversations, also it may have been a while since The Australian guys have exported so things might have changed since the last time (legislation changed around 2010). If the Aussie guys go to the Australian Customs & Border Protection Service website & sift through the maze of info & help sheets (follow the trail), as part of this maze is a reference to Dept. of Defence Strategic goods list which pertains to any form of ammunition, there are guidelines for the many types of ammunition & what is required of an exporter in order to carry out an exportation legally. If any of the ACCA guys would like to talk about this more I will be attending the AGM in Oct. Regards Peter W. ACCA National Legislation Officer.

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