Auxiliary chamber info needed


#1

At the Friday auction in St. Louis, I saw a 12ga/45acp auxiliary cartridge chamber up for auction. It had the following info on side of item

National Cartridge
N
National
12GA/45ACP
Firearms Management Company Inc.
Atlanta, Georgia

Can anyone provide me with info on this company.
Is it still in business etc etc.
Thanks,
Bob Ruebel


#2

I have recently come up with a bunch of variations in terms of headstamps and loadings and I’m trying to put together an article on these loads that were offered by National Cartridge of “Firearms Management co” of Georgia. I know roughly when they were in business (1983 - 1986), but nothing else. Does anyone have names or anything related to the company? The loads which they did in various pistol calibers that I know of are:

Armor Piercing (2 types - one called "metal piercing’)
Exploder - 2 types
Tracer
Scorpion - (Hydrashock type - a knockoff like the one that ABC did)
And this 12ga / 45 adapter apparently which I have not seen.

Does anybody have images of 9mm boxes?

Thanks!


#3

What images are you interested in. I mean by that, just the top of the box to show the box design, or the end labels to show the loadings, or all sides of the boxes? I have six different National 9mm Boxes, but they are basically of two patterns only.

Aside from the loads mentioned abouve, they offered Standard ammunition - just ordinary ball ammo, in .25 ACP 50 gr. FMJ and .25 ACP 50 gr JHP, and a variety of .38 loads, all with 158 grain bullets, plus one .357 load with 158 gr. JHP bullet.

In their speciality ammunition, the also offered a 124 gr FMJ 9mm Subsonic Load.

In the one undated catalog I have, they call their hydro-shok ammunition exactly that - they do not call it Scorpion. They may have changed that later; possibly sued or threatened with suit over the use of a copy-righted name.

Their Armor Piercing load was called “Black Steel” as was their Metal Piercing Load - very confusing, but the bullets are quite different. They offered two different bullet weights in the 9mm version of the Metal Piercing - 95 grain and 85 grain.

My catalog shows only one type of exploder ammunition, but I think it is an early catalog for them, as while they mention tracer ammunition, they give no specs and mention it as a near-future offering. My tracer box does not show the bullet weight, and I have nothing to measure it, as in all their loads except for the subsonic, I have only the empty boxes, no cartridge specimens which I had to give up some years ago. I don’t recall how they were marked.

The Subsonic round has a “NATIONAL” headstamp, and I have a ball round with that headstamp in 9mm I think, and certainly in .45 auto, even though my catalog doesn’t show the latter even being made by them. The column “Witt’s End,” by Otto Witt, in the IAA Journal Issue 437, May/Jun 2004, Page 51, shows National headstamps in .357 Magnum, .38 Special, 9mm and 45 Auto. My .25 Auto hollow-point specimen is with an R-P 25 AUTO headstamp and I do not believe National ever had their own headstamp in that caliber. I think I have NATIONAL boxes in other calibers besides 9mm.

Just to fill in information, my catalog doesn’t give any location information at all for National. Rather, the catalog shows Euclid Sales Co., of 1145 Euclid Avenue N.E., Atlanta, Georgia 30307 as the Distributor. National’s boxes don’t show any address either, other than Atlanta Georgia, but all the 9mm boxes I have, at least, show them as a Division of the Firearms Management Company of Atlanta.

The Shotgun adaptors are not shown in the catalog at all, although a series of holsters are, along with some other items including a line of T-Shirts with famous firearms on them.

Hope this helps round out the history a bit.


#4

Thanks John, that is great stuff. The boxes which I already have are: .357 Black steel AP, .38spl Black Steel AP, .357 tracer, and .357 Exploder. I have the earlier versions of Black steel which are the pointy milled-looking projectiles in the brass half-jacket, and not the later version rounded ones like what is pictured in Otto’s 38’s on the National cartridge page. I have 9mm Black steel cartridges and .38 / .357 Hydra shock cartridges, but no pics of boxes for the 9mm or Hydra-shock load, and no pics of their .25acp boxes. I havent’ seen any .45acp headstamps before for National. The box types I have are the gray box with red letters like this one:

And the only difference is the end label which is usually printed in the case of the Black Steel version, or is a white sticky label placed over the “black steel” printing in the case of the tracers and exploders as far as the boxes that I have. I have 3 versions of exploders with National headstamps and various headstamp varieties for all of their .38 & .357 cartridges with the fat letters, skinny letters, & rounded-3 and flat-top 3. If you have pics of the blue/orange boxes or any of the hydrashock or 9mm box labels of any kind that would be great. I will try to find that IAA journal with the info from the Witt’s End mention.


#5

The earlier boxes are actuall blue and red, not blue and orange, and the Subsonic version is differed in size, printing, and quantity (50 rounds) from the others.

I will send Joe some scans for posting. I will not bother with the top of the Silver box, since you have already showed that, but rather with the other sides, and then the end labels of the boxes from simply different loads.
One picture will show all the necessary sides of the silver box, as the side panels of these boxes duplicate each other, making it necessary to show only one side.

I will do the pictures now, and they will be posted whenever my pardner has time to do it. I will just do the 9mm boxes, unless there is some demand for the other caliber boxes to be shown. I am not sure how many there are in my collection, but they are all auto pistol. I have none of the revolver boxes, since I do not collect revolver cartridges or the boxes for them.


#6

Picture One - top of red and blue boxes:

National Cartridge Company early style boxes. The top box is for ten rounds of Exploder ammunition. Note that the type is including in the quantity line on the top edge of the box top. Also note that the end tabs are red. The bottom box in the picture is for 50 rounds of Subsonic ammunition. The Quantity line at the top of the box top shows only that - it does not show the type. Note also that on the bottom box, the end tabs are blue.

Picture Two - bottom of red and blue boxes:

Note that in the top box, the bottom is red and the end label that is showing is different and does not include an overlabel for the cartridge type. The Bottom box has a blue back label, and the a different side label as well - all red and different text - and that the subsonic label is on the end tab.

Picture Three - silver color box labels:

the top picture shows the bottom and side panel of the boxes. All have the same bottom and both side panels are identical, so we have only showed one. We did not bother showing the top, as that was already pictured on this thread and all of these are identical to that on previously pictured. End labels show the loading. In the case of each box, the box tabs (ends) are printed differently on each end and we have shown a sample of each end. All four boxes hav e this same combination of end labels, except that the Tracer box has a Flammable warning on the end label not shown. It is worth noting, but was not worth a fourth picture to show it.

Collection of John Moss


#7

Thanks a million John, Your contributions are stellar! Not to mention informative and helpful to me.