Ballistic tables

General Ammunition Discussion
#1

Gentlemen,

I’m looking for ballistic tables for several historical military rifle / MG rounds. Complete tables would be very nice, but what I actually need is velocity, time of flight and max.vertex ordinate figures for 0, 500 and 1000 meters range, for following rounds:

  • 6.5x50SR Arisaka (with pointed bullet)
  • 6.5x52 M91 Carcano
  • 6.5x55 M94 Swedish Mauser (with round-nose bullet)
  • 6.5x55 M41 Swedish Mauser (with spitzer bullet)
  • 7x57 Spanish Mauser (with pointed bullet)
  • 7,65x53 Belgian Mauser (with pointed bullet)
  • 8x50R Lebel balle M
  • 8x50R Lebel balle D
  • 8x50R Lebel balle N
  • 8x50R Steyr
  • 8x56R Steyr
  • 15x104 M38 Czechoslovakian

Thank you

#2

There is an excellent online ballistics calculator at jbmballistics.com/ballistics … tors.shtml and should allow calculation of about any information you desire. It does require the muzzle velocity and the ballistic coefficient of the bullet. That information is not particularly difficult to estimate, as there is pretty good information on ballistics coefficients. COTW and other sources (such as Chuckhawks website) give estimates of muzzle velocities of most military cartridges, except maybe for the 15 X 194 M38.

For example, the Hornady product data gives a G1 of about ,460 for a 140 grain flat-base 6.5mm spitzer bullet. Chuckhawks gives the MV of the 6.5 X 50 as 2500 f/s from a 32" barrel of the Type 38 rifle.

#3

Dennis, to get estimate of the BC, one has to have accurate drawings of the bullet, with meplat and ogive radiuses and boattail dimensions, which I don’t have for rounds, listed above
Also, I’s hard to find BC for roundnose bullets.
If anyone has such nfo, it will be greatly appreciated.

#4

I realize that, but all the bullet manufacturers publish BCs for their products. They may not have exactly the same nose profiles, but the BC differences will be relatively minor among manufacturers for the same bullet types and weights. About the only way to possibly do better is to set up chronographs to measure bullet velocity at at least two distances, and then calculate G1 (flat base) or G7 (boat tail) based upon velocity loss. I can (and have) done that, but it’s not too feasible for most. That’s what the bullet manufacturers do. The JBM Ballistics program previously mentioned will calculate BCs based upon velocity loss over a known distance. Some fairly comprehensive BC tables are here: frfrogspad.com/bcdata.htm I don’t really like the idea of using G1 values for BT bullets, but some do that.

Using the Ingalls tables will also work, but that’s sort of an antiquated method. Unless someone has hard experimental BC data available for the specific military bullets of interest, I think using bullet manufacturers’ BC data for roughly similar bullet shapes and weights is the only option.

There are analytical methods to calculate BCs from bullet geometry (ogive type and radius, meplat diameter, length, mass, base type, etc.), but those are prone to considerable error.

#5

As a competition shooter, ballistic tables are a necessity. I’ve often had to estimate BCs for custom made bullets and the results have been surprisingly good. As Dennis said, using BCs published by the major commercial manufacturers is a very reliable method. Loading manuals such as those published by Hornady, Nosler, Berger, and Sierra have both photos and BCs of their bullets and it’s easy to find one that is close enough in shape and weight to the military bullets. Estimated velocities are easy enough to find. Those two inputs, BC and MV, are all that’s needed to run a table. The JBM program that Dennis mentioned is one of the best, IMO, and I use it almost exclusively. If you have not used a ballistic program before now, it appears to be complicated and can be intimidating. But, don’t let it fool you. Only the two numbers (MV and BC) are important. The other input can be ignored for all practical purposes. What surprises many shooters is that things such as caliber and weight are not even needed. Try it.

Ray

#6

Some years back when I was doing some cartridge development work in conjunction with Federal, I found Federal was using the JBM ballistics calculator. They thought it was as good as anything else available at the time. No idea if that is still the case.

#7

Somewhere in my foggy old mind think I have an old book from the 1950’s on ballistics that has fold out sheets that have several hundred bullet shapes you can lay a bullet on and compare the shape then transfer the information to another chart to get a BC. Am busy with my historic group for the next few days but will look when I have time. Thought is was Whelen’s two books on interior and exterior ballistic but is not.
Gourd

#8

Maxim, the tables you are looking for are typically found in the last pages of most military manuals. I can start with these two:

This one is for the Mauser rifle Modelo Argentino 1891 in 7.65 x 53 (modified for S bullet):

And this one for the ZB 30 machine gun in 7 x 57 with S bullet:

#9

There should be something here:
Sharpe’s Complete guide to Handloading

http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=423-1937-Complete-Guide-to-Handloading-(by-Philip-B.-Sharpe)

I would look but I am rather busy fixing ? computers .

Glenn

#10

[quote=“Stonewall”]There should be something here:
Sharpe’s Complete guide to Handloading

http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=423-1937-Complete-Guide-to-Handloading-(by-Philip-B.-Sharpe)

[/quote]
sorry, but i get “403 - Forbidden” error when clicking this link.

#11

[quote=“Fede”]Maxim, the tables you are looking for are typically found in the last pages of most military manuals. I can start with these two:
[/quote]
Fede, that’s exactly what I’m looking for, thanks!

to all - I do not need very precise balistic tables, as for competitin shooting etc
I just need to make some generic comparision of trajectories and terminal energies for most common rifle / MG rounds at 500 and 1000 meters

#12

Maxim

If you use a BC estimate and the muzzle velocity as shown in the manuals, the JBM Ballistic Program will give you an approximate trajectory. Use the “Simplified” program which uses default values for most of the other data. It takes only a few seconds to run and it allows you to go back quickly and change any input to see the effects of changes in BC and/or velocity.

Ray

#13

Ray,
I actually used this program to get estimated trajectories for rounds that I’ve found info for

Problem is that I can’t get BC data for rounds listed above, especially round-nosed ones

#14

Maxim,
note that velocity of the 6.5 mm Carcano bullet varies a lot if the cartridge is shot in the rifle or in the musket.

Standard velocity for the rifle is 700 m/s , 600 m/s for the musket.
This changes the trajectory of the bullet

#15

Another possible source of ballistics information that might be close enough is the Lyman cast bullet handbook. It contains BCs plus very extensive and detailed ballistics tables for all (or at least most) of their cast bullet designs, many of which are round nosed. For example, an 8mm 242 grain RN bullet shows to have a BC of 0.410. If you can get a reasonably close match to shape and weight for the bullets of interest, that could help.

#16

mpopenker,
See the below link for ballistic information on the 8x50 cartridge. Ballistic table is toward thr bottom of the page.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8mm_Lebel

You may find some of the other cartridges there as well.

w30wcf