Benchrest Light Varmint record for five rounds at 100 yards


#1

http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?87299-The-quot-Unbreakable-quot-LV-009-WORLD-RECORD-Has-Been-Broken!!!

The “Unbeatable” LV .009 WORLD RECORD Has Been Broken!!!

Quote:

"Just got the great news that Mike Stennett has broken Mac McMillens “unbeatable” LV100 .009 record with

MIND BLOWING .0077!!!

Many thought this record would NEVER be broken and stand forever…

Mike accomplished this great feat with a 30PPC under some tough conditions at Denton, Texas.

Pictures of the new record group to follow as soon as I get them.

Congratulations Mike.

333smitty"

Benchrest Smallest Records

100 Yard 5 Shot group

L/V 0.0077 Stennett

U/L 0.049 OCock

H/V 0.027 Landon

S/P 0,041 Thurbrugh


#2

Glenn

I doubt if this new record will make all of the controversy surrounding the old record go away. In fact, it will probably generate it’s own new controversy, resulting in dueling controversies. ;-) ;-)

But, regardless, that is good shooting!

Ray


#3

Ray that fifth shot must have been interesting …

I just read that post on Benchrest dot com and I am still thinking about it.

There will be a rush on 30 Br barrels and components now .

At least with the new record every one is still alive and kicking .
Hmmmm!

And someone probably has made a video of shooting this group .
Ha!

Glenn


#4

I know nothing about Benchrest shooting. Can someone explain in a simple way what the “.0077” measurement actually means?


#5

That measurement is the size of the five-shot group that was fired. The reason that it seems impossible - smaller than the diameter of a single bullet - is that the group is measured from the center-point of the two widest shots of the group. Expressed another way, you could say that the group is measured from edge to edge and then on bullet diameter, in this case probably .308", is subtracted to obtain the “center to center” group. So, the full size of the group in question would be around 0.385" which is smaller for the entire hole than 4/10" of an inch. To the eye, the group probably would appear to be one single bullet hole, but at the level of world record shooting, they are generally sent to the headquarters of the NBRSA (National Bench Rest Shooting Association), I believe, for measurement, where they have scientific instruments that can pretty well measure the smallest deviation in group size.


#6

John

That is basically correct. The target is sent to a scoring committee consisting of 3 or more shooters. Each will measure the group and record his/her measurement without knowing what the other two members may have measured. The three measurements are then averaged to arrive at the final size. To arrive at his own final measurement, each scorer may measure 3 or 4 times and then average his results. So the end result is actually an average of other averages. The Regional Director and the NBRSA President has to sign off on everything before a new record is approved. There have been a few instances where the record was denied for various reasons but usually by the time it reaches the President any questions have been resolved.

Disregarding claims of cheating, etc. the controversies involve the ability to actually measure a hole in a piece of target paper when that hole is ragged, not necessarily round, without clearly defined edges. Measuring it to 4 decimal places staggers the imagination. Even using the most sophisticated measuring devices, three persons will arrive at three different measurements. The differences can be large or they can be very tiny. In the case of the previous record of .009" center to center, at least one of the measurers recorded a measurement of .000". The gossip at the time was that another scorer also measued an .000" but the committee felt that approving a world record of .000" would have resulted in a civil war, not to mention leaving a situation where future shooters had to resign themselves to the fact they could never shoot a new world record. Many felt that the .009" world record would be a sort of compromise but the controversy never ended. Shooters who weren’t even alive when the .009" was recorded 40 years ago still enter the fray.

When Benchrest first started, no one could have imagined a 5-shot group that would measure less than .010" center to center. The methods and devices used today are not much different than they were in 1950 but no one can come up with anything better so they are stuck with them, and the controversy. When we started shooting 1000 yard Benchrest in the 1990s we were measuring targets with a yardstick and there was only one measurement, no scoring committee was involved. But now, even those targets have to be measured with calipers and reviewed by committee. That’s how small they are getting.

Ray


#7

Thanks for the replies.

As you say Ray, I am also skeptical about being able to really measure a ragged hole in paper down to 1/10,000 of an inch.

To me, all bullets through one hole is an impressive achievement in itself.


#8

The achievements of Bench Rest shooters are breathtaking, no doubt.

On the other hand, claiming to be able to tell .0077 from .009 on a paper target requires a healthy dose of self-esteem.


#9

It’s hard to visualize one-hole groups unless you’ve seen them in person. Here’s one that I shot in Midland Texas in 1996. 5-shots, 100 yards. It measures .092" which means it is 10 times larger than the old world record of .009". Now, try to imagine what .0077" looks like. Benchrest shooters call these types of groups “tiny dots”.

BTW, this group got me a couple of atta-boys, but not much else. Matches are won by aggregates, not single groups. That means if I had shot 5 groups like this I probably would have won a fake-wood trophy. My best ever aggregate was .181" for five 5-shot groups. That one did win me a trophy. But not by much. I recall that 2nd place was .190". If someone else had been measuring targets that day it could easily have been reversed. You win some, you lose some. Or, as Yogi Berra would say, “You win half, you lose half, and the other half are rained out.”

Ray


#10

Ray - beautiful group you shot. I had only one group ever even close. I shot it with my LVC Remington 40XB-BR 20 inch barrel .222 Remington, with a 20X scope. It was shot at night, which to some would seem impossible, but actually at our home range you got better groups at night, as there were generally almost zero conditions of wind and mirage in the evening, and the lighting for the 100 yard targets was excellent. My group was basically a one holer made “pregnant” with a little protrusion on one side. I thought I detected a slight wind change and held off - the bullet when right where I held.
It was till far and away the best group I ever shot. I forget the group measurement, but it was smaller than bullet diameter but not a beautiful almost perfectly round group like yours. I wore out the target (a piece with the group on it cut from the target) from carrying it my wallet for 10 years or so. :-) That’s how proud I was of it. Wish I could say I did it all the time, but it was a once a lifetime group for a schlub like me.

Even the old, now almost gone .222 Remington was a fantastic cartridge capable of wonderful accuracy. I know some of the “new” rounds out-class it.


#11

JOHN

As we all know, those “wallet” groups don’t come along very often. We tend to remember the ones you can cover with a dime, but we forget the ones that can’t be covered with a dollar bill. I’m always amused by the shooters on different forums who brag about their rifles that can shoot one-half inch groups “all day long”. Even the best of the benchrest shooters can’t do that. There are days when you’re happy to keep all your shots on the paper. When I first started to shoot, one of my mentors was an old guy who always seemed to be at the top of the list when the shooting stopped. He once pulled me aside and told me, “Quit trying to shoot those tiny dots. Instead, try to not shoot big groups and you’ll do OK”.

Ray


#12

Ray - how true! In 36 years of retail gun sales, I heard all the countless stories about the 7-1/2 pound custom sporting rifle in this caliber or that that shot quarter minute of angle groups all day every day. A couple of times, I had enough and I used to keep a then fairly current listing out of one of the magazines of the most recent match-winning groups shot in competitions, with various classes of rifles. I showed it to the person and asked why they were not out shooting and winning national-class Bench Rest competitions using their pet hunting rifle?


#13

[quote=“RayMeketa”]JOHN

I’m always amused by the shooters on different forums who brag about their rifles that can shoot one-half inch groups “all day long”. Ray[/quote]

Don’t forget, “as long as I do my part.”


#14

Controversy over records what stinking controversy? Back in the good old days of smallbore shooting in the 1930’s there was a hot shot from Fresno CA who could not be beat. Somewhere along the way he lost confidence and started firing a few close shots then shooting the rest between targets. Someone finally caught him he was banned for years. That started the backer target use. Some of the first backers were a paper roll that slowly moved so each shot could be counted. Have never shot bench rest completion do they use backers?
Gourd


#15

There is a moving backer behind the targets.
view from the back of the targets

Glenn


#16

Moving backers were first used on a Saturday, and by Sunday morning, shooters were hatching methods to beat them. I knew several of the old-timers, now gone, who would tell me stories about how any backer design could be beaten. Some required a lot of thought and planning, while others were so simple that even a cave man could do it. When the bigger tournaments started using two backers, one fixed and one moving, it only made the cheating a little harder, not impossible.

In life, there are people who thrive off the thrill of cheating.

Ray


#17

Quote (Glenn Chism Br.com)

I was there when Mike shot the group. We had moderate switchy winds. The flags were busy. As he explained it. He chased the first shot with four more that went into the same hole. He did this while watching his wind flags.

!00 Yard 5 Shot

L/V 0.0077 Stinnett-2013

U/L 0.049 OCock

H/V 0.027 Landon -1975

S/P 0.041 Thurbrugh


#18

I lived in Midland in the late 1970s and also from 1984-91, and shot bench rest there. In competition, the moving paper backers were used, and I cannot see how they wouldn’t still be required just to keep everyone honest.

To get those microscopic groups (I never came anywhere close to a group that small) there must be a substantial portion of luck involved, as the slightest amount of wind velocity or direction change could blow a bullet off course by that much.

Does anyone remember the stories about the bench rest range in a Houston warehouse where wind and mirage were eliminated as factors?


#19

Dennis

Moving backers are still used at all registered tournaments. For the big events, such as the Nationals, a second backer is used. It’s fixed and is used to determine cross-fires.

What’s interesting about Stinnett’s group is that his sighter target (the bottom one) has a location different than his record group. It looks like he fired 3 or 4 sighters, liked what he saw, and went right to the record target and machine-gunned 5 shots before conditions could change.

Luck plays a big part in shooting small groups. But, you’ll notice that some shooters seem to have more luck than others. ;-) But, you’ll also notice that some of the biggest names in Benchrest have never shot a world record.

World records and other one-group targets involve not only good shooting, but a big portion of luck. Anyone who has had one (record) will attest to that. I had one 600 yard record that lasted only a couple of months and I’ll be the first to admit that it was 10% skill and 90% luck. The small group that I showed in my earlier post was shot at Midland Texas. The wind was blowing the oil rigs over at the time. It was 99.9% luck.

The Houston Warehouse is a legend among Benchrest shooters. The story is that one-hole groups were very common, and they get smaller as the years go by. But, that was a long time ago and I’m not sure that any of the guys are still alive to tell the whole story.

Ray


#20

[quote=“DennisK”]I lived in Midland in the late 1970s and also from 1984-91, and shot bench rest there. In competition, the moving paper backers were used, and I cannot see how they wouldn’t still be required just to keep everyone honest.

To get those microscopic groups (I never came anywhere close to a group that small) there must be a substantial portion of luck involved, as the slightest amount of wind velocity or direction change could blow a bullet off course by that much.

Does anyone remember the stories about the bench rest range in a Houston warehouse where wind and mirage were eliminated as factors?[/quote]

http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html