Hi there a couple of question …
Does anyone know the bullet and powder weights?
Has the fabled copper cartridge turned up yet?
Another question : I was of the impression that these cartridges were made by Sage Ammunition works, but there was no proof apart from the tie up between Smith of Smith and Bradley of New York who were the financial backers of the Requa Billinghurst gun , and Smith being an agent ? of Sages.
The gun was designed in 1861 and displayed in 1862. Am I right in my dates of the Sage Ammunition company being 1864 -66 ? or is this D.C.Sage ? , are they one and the same ? , does one procced the other? or was this company trading under a different name at this time ?
Thanks in advance
I’m also am a little confused about Sage. Sage Ammunition Works was incorporated October 31st 1864. However it was reported D.C. Sage was selling skin cartridges to the US Government as early as 1862, two years before SAW was officially incorporated. These were labeled D.C Sage and Company.
Dean Thomas “Round Ball to Rimfire Vol 3” has a section on The Billinghurst and Requa gun and ammunition. Thomas states in 1862 Lt. Mitchell referred to the cases as being copper but so far only brass cases are known. Thomas speculated Lt Mitchell was in error and meant to refer to them a “Cupreous” based as opposed to ferrous (iron).
While looking for Billinghurst packaging, I seen this picture on four different sites. (civilwartalk, the firing line forums, etc.)
It looks like they have a loading clip for this gun, and a large crate of them. I wonder if our clip experts know more about this?
That author is Dean Thomas not Smith.
I think the ‘clip’ has been shown somewhere on the forum.
Also as an aside these can be found with quite different sized rim diameters. should anyone want to try for variations.
Lou Behling’s book in progress on American rimfires may have more info on Sage in his various corporate connections.
Your right Pete I don’t know what I was thinking. Old age strikes again!
I found one for sale awhile ago. “The union drummer boy” had a full clip and was asking $ 3,300 which I thouht was extravagant but it does work out to $132 each , and where are you going to find another one
We had three rounds in our last sale sold for $40, $45 and $17.50 as it was actually in horrible condition having been dissembled.
catalog still up on our side for a free download
thanks for that. It was good to see the 2 piece case as it wasn’t how I expected it to be made.
My one fits those dimentions with the base coming in at .73".
There have only been 2 cartridges that have sold over here in the last decade that i know of, and they have been $ 100 and $ 191.Thats New Zealand money.
Ah, well that explains a lot. The old forum had where you were from on it which was a bonus as you could give a knowledgeable answer for a number of reasons. Now we make comments that are worthless to the person asking because we don’t know where they are living.
But glad it was of some use.
So should I ever be lucky enough to visit NZ I should bring a large bag of BR’s
I could supply you with a large shopping list of goodies.
I haven’t found the clip on the forum in my searches either.
Well I could be wrong about that.old fart & memory