Black Hills ammunition by RUAG

From a friend in Switzerland. RUAG is producing .223 for Black Hills. Typical Swiss army box, 50 rnds, hst Geco .223


[quote=“PaulSmith”]From a friend in Switzerland.

I wonder who that is…
CU soon

When hs is Geco it should be Hungarian made by MFS which is RUAG now.

Talk about blurring the lines as to who made what!

Cartridge collectors two years (or months?) from now will be four times more crazy than they are now.

Who is on first?

Yes, Pete, the ammunution business has become an incestuous affair. You can’t tell the players without a program. Further cojmplicating is that the headstamps, more than ever, tell us only who make the case (sometimes!!!), but not who actuall loaded the ammunition.

Guess that’s what makes it fun, but it sure is hard these days to maintain a meaningful collection.

Plus that in the old days all hs bunters were made by hand and had a certain design, font and style that was often a good lead for the ID of less obvious producers. Today all is done by digital eroding machinery and hs look the same around the half world.
Means today more than in the past we have to observe all other features (crimps, seals, packing, related items etc.) of a cartridge if we attempt an ID.
And as John said not to mention the administrative background of manufacturers.

Just my opinion…

I’ve had a number of the California Criminalistics Institute, Firearms & Tool Marks students, as a group, visit my collection & one thing I always say to to be sure of your facts as to who made it & to give them an idea of just how much of an “incestuous affair” it has become. I usually use ATK’s ownership of various US makers as an example & tell them of this forum & the knowledge available to them on it.

How about possible markings on the base INSIDE the case ?

This is no longer made on “ammo” made by RUAG Switzerland, or RUAG Hungary (MFS)…It ends in Fuerth at the very moment 9 Luger production went in part to Thun. This was the Info given at this years IWA…


Merci for your help, Paul. How clever you are, Flying “Beau” Dutch!!!
The GECO 5.56 are not produced in Hungary, but in Thun, where the main production line is. The quality ammunition is made in Switzerland or Germany. The low cost in Hungary. You can clearly see differences on the cartridges cases or headstamps. For the Swiss army 5.6 mm hst, the bunter is still used ( T 13 ). I just got an example of SS109 or now 5.56x45 HC - Hard Core ( T nato 5.56 13 ) laser engraved. It seems that all depends on the final customer and is probably a question of costs…