Brass cased 20x139 rounds?

i found a picture on the net who show rounds appear to be 20x139 with brass cases (dimensions are compared with .50 rounds and the shape of the neck)

rounds apparely manufactured by pindad indonesia

Interesting! I’ve seen early Swiss 20x139mm cartridges with brass cases but I didn’t realize there were more modern brass-cased rounds as well.

the swiss rounds with brass are normally very early ,at the beginning of this caliber

Is not impossible that these are brass cased but another possibility would be brass plated steel, which has been already used in this caliber. Historically, Pindad was not a manufacturer of medium caliber ammunition and this caliber was announced in 2010, so it may take some time until we know which material they are using.

all brass plated steel cases that i see had a distinctive golden color ,not the same color as plain brass
i don’t know how ?


Is this a picture of a display by Pindad at a recent trade show?


Nothing on Pindad’s website as yet.

for bdgreen ,i think is a picture of display but not sure

These are indeed Pindad products and have been displayed in several Asian exhibitions held recently. This picture from 2012 also shows a 20x82 cartridge.

As Pindad has signed a MOU with Rheinmetall-Denel of RSA for serving the SEA market and the 20x81 is featuring the Denel type fuze I assume these 20x81 and 20x139 are made in RSA or even on machinery from RSA which made it to Indonesia (the latter is unlikely in my view).

The white PA on the 12.7x99 also looks very much like RSA.

Alex, these dummies were displayed in exhibitions held as early as 2009, so they predate the agreement signed with Rheinmetall-Denel in 2014. Regarding the Cal. .50 cartridges, these are very interesting not only because they are indeed Indonesian, but also because the headstamp amazingly is PINDAD 86!

Here is the best close-up image that I could find of the 20 mm rounds and other interesting stuff:



Ok, so there must have been some earlier connection by Denel and Pindad then (and after Rheinmetall took over maybe was refreshed or approved under the new management) as the 20x81 fuze is definately a Denel design and could not have come from eslewhere.

It seems Pindad went shopping for designs in other countries (not unusual as we see from other countries too - Caracal for example) as the 12.7 and the 7.62 in the last image are clearly Anthena designs.