Brazilian Survival Gun 36ga. ammo


#1

I run into this articel and wouldt like to know some more about the ammo.
Made as survival gun by CBC for bush pilots, the 36ga. ammo seems to be loaded with shot and an additional slug.
Anybody out there has some more informations or fotos ?


Shot load for the Brazilian Survival 36ga
#2

Whaoh !!!
what is this shell ? ? !!

JP


#3

J-P - the “Cartucho Cal 36 (.410) Sobrevivencia” (Cal 36 Gauge (.410) survival cartridge) is basically an all-brass .410 shtgun shell loaded as shown in the cutaway pictured in the original entry of this thread. It was used with the Escopeta para Sobrevivencia (Survial Shotgun), one of many military and para-military shotguns based on the CBC (Companhia Brasileira de Cartuchos) sporting Shotguns Models 651 and 151. There is a line throwing gun version that uses a .45 cartridge much like, and perhaps the same, as .45-70, a Guard duty gun with very short barrel, and a Riot Control gun with even a bayonet attachment.

Later I will scan a page of an undated CBC catalog for military and police items that shows the cartridge (no cut-away though, but then we already have that drawing) and the gun. I think the page is too large to reproduce on the Forum. If sized down to a decent fit, it will be pretty illegible.

If anyone wants me to post the scan on the forum, I will have Joe do the best he can with it. Up to you guys.

The catalog is new enough, by the way, that it shows their production of 5.56 x 45 (.223) ammunition. I suspect it is from the mid-1980s or late 1970s.

John Moss


#4

John: The picture of the cut away cartridge seems to have a neck where a 410 is a straight cart?? Vic


#5

You are right. it is for that I said Whouah !!
Either the cutting view is false, either it is not a regular 12 mm (410).
The difference between the lower and the upper parts of the case is too important for a regular shell.
JP


#6

On the catalogue page John sent to me (thank you very much) the difference is not as big as on the German picture.
But there is a difference.
Strange because for the regular 36 Gauge shells shown in other CBC catalogues the pictures look as the real shells : with no recess.

Thus I don’t know. Is it coming from the picture or is it a special shell with a necked down case ? (and it would be strange if for a survival gun you can’t use a regular 36 gauge shotshell, exept if the front diameter is like a regular shell and the rear diameter bigger than a regular shell in order of not chamber this ctge in a regular 36 shotgun)
JP


#7

Since I don’t have either a real cartridge or the gun it uses, I cannot comment on the two-diameter case. If I had one of the guns, I could try and see if a regular 410 shotgun shell fits the chamber or not. Since the gun in question is only shown, among my CBC catalogs, in a military and police catalog, and since it has a short barrel (not super short, but perhaps shorter than the legnth allowed civilians in Brazil, it may purposefully chamber a different shell so civilians can’t get ammo for the military gun if they have a stolen one, I simply don’t know the real answer. That is for a shotgun shell expert to take care of and I am certainly not that.

I can tell you that the picture in the catalog definitely shows a two-diameter cartridge case - it is not a photographic illusion, and that the factory catalog describes the caliber as “Cal. 36 (.410) survival cartridge.” I am not qualified to challenge their definition.

I think I will see if a picture of the page in question can be posted on the Forum. I will leave it entirely up to Joe to see if he thinks a legible picture can be posted without taking up a huge amount of space.

John Moss


#8

Page from undated CompanhiaBrasileira de Cartuchos (CBC) Catalog of Products for Armed Forces and Police.

John Moss


#9

Very nice,
Are the mortar cartridges on the right regular gauges such as 8 or 4 gauge or they have special body diameters?

Pivi


#10

Pivi - they look to me like normal gauges, but not normal lengths, but I don’t know. That’s the problem with military catalogs, they often use only the military designation for a cartridge. The military people looking to purchase these rounds don’t care if a Mortar Igniter is 12 Ga, 20 Ga, etc. They only care that it is the right one for their mortars and they determine that by the description “for 60mm Mortar.” Oddly, this catalog shows the full caliber and name for other calibers, such as “.50 Caliber for Browning Machine Guns.”

A lot of military small arms aren’t even marked with the calibers anywhere on the weapon - the militaries that use them know what caliber they are. Others, have only a bore designation on them. For example, the american M1 Garand rifle says on the back of the receiver “U. R. Rifle, Cal. .30, M1” and doesn’t describe the claiber as “.30-06.” Yet, the U.S. has had four different .30 Caliber service cartridges, .30-40 Krag, .30-06, .30 Carbine and 7.62 x 51mm NATO. (I am not countring the .30 Pedersen since the Pedersen device for the Model 1903 Springfield never achieved full issue).

I don’t know much about Mortar igniters, so I can’t answer your question.

John Moss


#11

the big one looks to be a 37 mm, the other ones 12 gauge
jp


#12

Thanks for the infos and pictures- very nice. Any idea about the effect of the double shot/slug load ??
Are there other known double load shotshells ? Is there a brazilian IAA chapter ??:-)


#13

This cartridge was developed in the decade of 60 for the use of pilots of Brazilian Air Force.
For use in situations of emergency and survival, primarily for use in the jungle.
Here, in Brazil, there are large cats and the majority of animals that are good fighters are of medium size and small.
That this cartridge still in use in the Brazilian Air Force, although no longer appear in catalogos.


#14

Thank you very much for that nice informations


#15

I have some cartridges. I will shoot a foto and post.