Brenneke 8x72R Patents, German patents in general


#1

I recently found this great ad for sale in the internet.


It is listed as a 1897 ad which is unusual as the dates in the ad seem to be all 1898 which is the accepted date for this cartridge.

There are supposed to be two be two patents (D.R.G.M.) related to this cartridge:

  • one is for the Lead alloy bullet which Brenneke is supposed to have invented in 1897. I have read somewhere (??) that the patent for this was applied for in 1899 and granted in 1900.
  • the other is for the case which I believe was “D.R.G.M. 96541” and cartridges with that hs do exist. This was evidently not uncommon and occurred for the 9.3x82R Nimrod (ie Thieme and Schlegelmilch) and 9.3x62 Mauser (G.C.Dornheim for Otto Bock). This gave the inventors evidently 3 (D.R.G.M.) or 6 (D.R.P) years of protected production for that case.

The ad shows two D.R.P. patents on the left; D.R.P 94620 and D.R.P 95046 - both evidently for the Brenneke Drilling mechanisms which were invented by Brenneke in 1895 and both were granted patents on 27 Nov 1896. These patents are unrelated to the case and bullet.

I was hoping that the ad may provide more info but the problem I have is due to the very ornate nature of the font used. I find it is extremely difficult to work out some of the letters so that the words can be translated because I am not sure of what I am looking for. If one of our German speaking members could help me there with a translation I would be very grateful.

The other question is - I used to be able to find some early patent info online for the German D.R.P and D.R.G.M. patents but no longer can find the reference. Does any one know of a link to such info on the Internet ?


#2

The text below the drawing of the 72 mm case says:

"New ball cartridge for light drillings, DRGM with new alloy bullets (Result of tests done by Herr A. Ungewitter, see article in issue 13, page 181 of 1st April 1898.) with best conceivable killing power on big game under all hunting conditions."
Bold line: “Highest precision, largest penetration, best deformation”

All other text in the advertisement refers to the guns.

Note that a DRGM is a sort of legal protection, but not really a patent. Dating the ad as 1897 is of course wrong, because there are two references to articles from April 1898 in it, as you mentioned correctly. I assume it is a clipping from some German weekly hunting periodical.

Homepage URL of the German patent (and trademark) office (Deutsches Patent- und Markenamt) is: dpma.de
In the top line of the homepage you can change to English. The old URL to download patent documents depatis.net seems to have been given up.


#3

Thanks for your help Mr JPeelen.

I also assume it is from some sort of periodical, nothing else appears to be listed. Here is the link to the ad which is still active:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Selbstspanner-Drillinge-Gewehrfabrik-W-Brenneke-Leipzig-gun-rifle-Reklame-1897-/371333668749


#4

Brad, great ad, thank you very much for sharing.

As mentioned by Jochem, the number preceded by the initials “D.R.G.M.” is not a patent but an utility model registration for a short term (three years that could be extended for another three). With few exceptions, all the files from 1891 until 1934 are lost, and the only information available about a given number is the classification number, title, registerer name, address and date. For example, number 96541 correspond to a “Kugelpatrone” registered by Brenneke of Leipzig on March 29, 1898 and renewed on March 20, 1901.

I’m afraid that this information can only be obtained at the Deutsches Patentamt in Berlin. Also, you may be able to find old paper copies of the “Patentblatt” in some public libraries in Germany, USA (Chicago) and probably in other countries as well. Some US libraries also have digitalized copies but these are accessible only to universities using their private network.

Regards,

Fede


#5

Hi, sorry , this ad cannot be from 1897, because it mentiones already in this ad publications from 1898…!!
So, I think, the sale in ebay is a misnomer…
Forensic


#6

Fede - Thanks for that clarification and additional info.

Peter - I’m not sure what you are saying ? We have already mentioned that the ad can’t be from 1897 because of the 1898 dates. I’m assuming that the most likely explanation is that the person who places the Ad made a mistake with the date. Are you saying something else ? (misnomer ?)

Looking at more info on German ammunition Patents and Protections, there is an interesting part of a document here: http://d-nb.info/1015534163/04

It lists the following info:


I. ERFINDUNGEN, PATENTE, INNOVATIONEN - 11
1.1 Anmerkungen zur Geschichte - 1 1
1.2 Zündnadelwaffen - 1 8
J. Dorsch & v. Baumgarten, Gewehrfabrik, Suhl - 1 9
Zündnadelgewehr, Zündnadelpistole - 1 9
Büchsenmachermeister N.N. Luck/Büchsenmachermeister N.N. Karl - Suhl - 21
Zündnadel-Verschluss- und Schlosssystem - 21

1.3 Munition - 22
1.3.1.1 Patronentypen detailliert - 2 3

„Behr’s Waffen-Werke GmbH", Suhl - 23
„Behr’s Express Patrone Kai. 8 mm" - 23

G. C. Dornheim, Munitionsfabrik und -handlung, Suhl - 23
Dornheim-Patrone 9,3 x 72 R - 23

Adolph Frohn, Gewehrfabrik, Suhl - 23
„Frohn"-Patrone/Schützenpatrone 8,15x46-1/2 - 23

J. P. Sauer & Sohn, Jagdgewehrfabrik, Suhl - 24
Jagdbüchsen-Patronen - 24

August Schüler, mechanische Waffen- und Munitionsfabrik Suhl - 25
Großwildpatronen - 25
„Lacrimae"-Knall-/Gaspatrone - 27

Fa. Friedrich Stendebach Waffen- und Geschossfabriken, Suhl - 28
Flintenlaufgeschoss „Stendebach’s Ideal" - 28

Nimrod-Gewehr-Fabrik - Thieme & Schlegelmilch, Suhl - 28
Nimrod 82/9,3


The Nimrod one is probably : DRGM 103385 9.3x82R NIMROD but the date is not confirmed ? c1898/99
The Stendebach one is probably : DRP 456738 Stendebachs Ideal bullet 16Feb1928
The Schüler Großwildpatronen could be : D.R.G.M. 239127 11.2x60 Schüler Richard Schüler 31 Oct1904 or one of the later Schuler cartridges ??
The G.C. Dornheim one is probably the (M31 ??) Dornheim special loading of the 9.3x72R.
I am unaware of the 8mm Behrs or 8.15x46 Frohn “registrations” ??

If anyone shed more info on any of these it would be great.


#7

Having done a bit more research, I see that this index is from the 2010 book:

Im Zeichen des Waffenschmieds : Almanach der modernen Schusswaffenfertigung in der Region um Suhl/Thüringen / Ernst G. Dieter

Maybe someone here has a copy and can briefly explain the munition contents listed above ?