British 8mm MG belt


#1

I got this at the last ever Gun Show in San Bernidino Ca. several years ago. I paid a nickle a round the can and belt were thrown in. I have no idea what machine gun used this, the belt itself is quite heavy. Headstamp reads K 53 D3 and the can looks like a standard WWII German can. I couldn’t get a picture of the markings of the starter tab needed a loop to see them but it was made by Thos. French & Sons
Manchester
5
7.92 225
with a flur de lies next to the 5.





#2

[quote=“LOTSAAMMO”]I got this at the last ever Gun Show in San Bernidino Ca. several years ago. I paid a nickle a round the can and belt were thrown in. I have no idea what machine gun used this, the belt itself is quite heavy. Headstamp reads K 53 D3 and the can looks like a standard WWII German can. I couldn’t get a picture of the markings of the starter tab needed a loop to see them but it was made by Thos. French & Sons
Manchester
5
7.92 225
with a flur de lies next to the 5.

[/quote]

This is a belt of Drill rounds for the 7.92mm BESA machine gun which was used in many British armoured vehicles. The headstamp “K 53 D3” means: Kynoch, 1953, Drill Mark 3. The belt markings just about say it all, you have the manufacturers name, fleur-de-lis trade mark and calibre. The 5 means mark 5 belt and 225 is the belt length. The starter tab is detachable and the trailing end of the belt has a slot so that belts can be joined end-to-end.

The starter tab is very long because the MG is on the opposite side of the tank main gun to the ammo box. The starter tab has to be fed through a narrow slot between the main gun cradle and the recoil/recuperator cylinder above it. If the belt is noted to be nearly expended (the final 50 or so links are of a different colour) then the starter tab of the next belt can be detached and the two belts joined together to avoid having to fiddle with starting a new belt.

gravelbelly


#3

THANK YOU FOR THE INFO THIS ISN’T MY AREA OF COLLECTING IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN THIS A GOOD DEAL WILL BE GIVEN. ALONG THE SAME LINE I WAS SELLING ON GB AND STILL HAVE A LOT TO SELL IS IT WORTH OFFERING HERE?


#4

The Fleur-de-lys symbol is the trademark of MF&S (M French & Sons), longtime makers of belts, clips etc. for the British Ammo Trade and Gov’t. They were still making 7,62 Nato Clips in the 1990s…now part of another Company.

Nice Belt example, and all those D3 Rounds… not common.

Regards,
Doc AV


#5

I have seen a couple of those boxed BESA belts filled with Mark 3 drill rounds at the last two SLICS.

Doc - in the UK the D3 is perhaps the most often seen British BESA drill round, more common than the wartime D Mark I and II. Most common of all are the Danish re-works on British cases with wood bullets and two rolled rings in the case.

What I am still looking for are the “Cartridge, Stoppage, Instruction Mark I” and Mark II. The Mark I looks like a regular drill but the Mark II is a piece of turned brass roughly shaped like a cartridge.

Regards
TonyE


#6

TonyE I saw them also at SLICS and bought one
Here are pict’s off a unopened box and opend…





regards
gyrojet


#7

Thanks Gyrojet.

I am not sure why they would have needed quite so many, it would have been hard work cranking 225 rounds through a BESA gun!

Regards
TonyE


#8

Tony et al - I am not surprised you saw belts of these at the last SLICS. Many years ago, these showed hp
in huge quantity in the United States, sold primarily at gun shows. I thought at the time, knowing they were around all the gun shows, that considering the caliber, it was amazing how much of this stuff England made especially considering the year, 1953.

For the nitpacker collector, like me, I can report five variations from my own collection:

Empty case, Bright Red primer pocket, no red paint ever in the flutes
Dark red primer pocket and dark red flutes
Bright red primer pocket and dark red flutes
Dark red primer pocket and bright red flutes
Bright red primer pocket and bright red flutes

All these except the empty case (I don’t recall where I got that) came from a box of hundreds of these, loose, with a gun show dealer who also have full cans of the long belts, as well as belt sections of ten rounds cut off
of longer belts. You could buy them anyway you pleased.

I agree with Tony. This is probably the most common 7.9 x 57 dummy round from England.


#9

As there were so many new rounds imported, these could have been a contract that as ordered and not delivered. Kynoch would have disposed of them by selling them off elsewhere.


#10

NICE CAN THAT WOULD BE MORE IN MY LINE OF COLLECTING I HAVE TO GET MYSELF TO SL NEXT YEAR. THANK YOU FOR ALL THE RESPONSES. JERRY