British shotshells

  1. Does somebody have documents giving dimensions of Eley shotshells before 1900 ?

If I ask the question it is because the diensions are different from the ones after 1900;
Some gauges are slighty different, some others very much (24 and 28 for example)

  1. I am still looking for Eley catalogues before 1885.
    Nobody has one?

For the catalogue, have you checked with the British Library? In theory everything which is “published” has to have a copy in the library. I’m not sure if this runs to catalogues (?)
They won’t let you borrow their copy but you could probably get a photocopy and you can see their copy and make notes.

Hi JP,

Here are some scans from a reproduction catalogue. There are a few more pages of shotshells (including punt) as well as a military section (with Gatling rounds). If you, or anyone else, would like to see more, let me know and I can post.

Paul,yes it would be interesting to see the remaining pages


Hi Vince

no I haven’t check.
Thanks for the info.
I will do it but small hope because it is a catalogue.

But if they are as thieving as the Birmingham proof house (10 pounds the xeros copy = 15 $) I will not buy anything from them.

Thanks Paul;
I have already this year from Kynoch.
Good catalogue because it gives the Kynoch dimensions which are a lot different fom the Eley ones.
Indeed two different standards were in use in England before 1900.

I would like to find the equivalent from Eley.
Unfortunately, even in the catalogues I have (1885 and after) there is no dimensions.

Thanks anyway


I think you need to moderate your attitude on this forum. The Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House does not exist for your benefit. It is a commercial organization - not a charity. If you want a copy of a cartridge drawing, one of the staff has to take time off their job to find it, copy it, package it and send it by mail. In the real world J-P, time = money.
You have accused the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House on this public forum ‘as thieving’. That is a very serious accusation. I am no lawyer - but I think if you cannot prove what you say - they could sue you for libel.
I have no connection with the Birmingham Gun Barrel Proof House except they have allowed me to visit their library - because we have established a mutual respect. You must earn respect - not demand it. Your attitude does not help cartridge collecting & research.

Here are the Punt…

…and here are the Gatling.


  1. The main activity of the BGPH business nowadays is to proof the guns and so on.
    And I perfectly understand they must make money.
    It is a business as any another business.

(Just a little remark :you can get on the CIP website their charts for free for example, but nothing is free at the BGP. They even sell the CIP charts for 55 pounds (110 dollars) !).

  1. About the historical part of their job, it is different.
    Excatly as all the other museum or organizations existing in Europe or abroad, they exist to keep and promote the remembering of the past.

Most of he museum, even private, have subventions from the goverment.
And many are not lucky enough to be part of a commercial organisation making money.

  1. I will take the worst scenario.
    No goverment subvention, no money coming from another job.
    They must make money to survive of course.

But don’t you think 6 pounds (12 dollars ) for each xeros copy is not a little too much expansive?
Just to copy it (and I am not sure they are not already digitalised) or print it.
Furthermore this price doesn’t include taxes and shipping !

4)All the other museum take less than one dollar !
The french archives for example ask for 0.25 Euros (one quarter of a dollar), which is already expansive when you have hundred to do.

The regular price of a xeros copy in a shop in France being 0.10 Euro (12 cents of a dollar), it means they charge you 2.5 times the price to make money.
It is normal, they have to pay the guy making the copy and so on.

  1. Now if we compute the ratio between GBPH (12 plus taxes) and French archives (1/4 ) it gives about 50 !!

How do you call somebody selling things 50 times more expansive than everywhere else?

  1. Most of the people at the BGPH are very kind, like all the historian people, I am sure, and surely you can have nice relation whith them when you meet them.
    I am not talking of them but of the organization.